CJ360t engine siezed....temporarily.

[jdub64]

So today, I removed the right side engine cover and clutch basket on my CJ360. The clutch plates were sticking, so I soaked them in clean oil (Rotella T 10w30) and re-installed. While the cover was off, I cleaned the oil filter centrifuge and the oil pick-up screen. I re-installed all parts and finally successfully adjusted the clutch. The engine fired up on the first kick. I let it idle for 10 minutes then took it for two 1/5 mile loops around the neighborhood. One my third attempt, the engine stopped. The kick start pedal wouldn't budget. After rolling it back home, I let it cool and 20 minutes later I was able to turn the engine over at the alternator stator. It seemed to turn over as normal as it would when setting timing and adjusting the valves (which I also did this morning).

After doing some reading, I now know I did not line up the oil filter cap rib with the rib on oil filter rotor.

I also did not re-install what looked like a redundant, stretched out o-ring loosely installed around the oil screen tube. (the o-ring was red and clearly so stretched that it wasn't doing any good. The correct black o-ring was still in the engine case where the tube from the screen mates to the case).

I'm using Rotella T 10w30.

Would any of those points factor into the lack of lubrication? If I fix my oil delivery problem, do I now have a much shorter engine life since it seized?

The engine is a stock CJ360 16K original miles running stock carbs, air filters and exhaust.

 

[crazypj]

Nothing wrong with Rotella, I use it in all my bikes.
Cam bearing seizing is pretty common, did you use a new clutch cover gasket or sealer on the old gasket?
Silicon is a BAD IDEA, bits tend to break off and block oilways to the head

 

[jdub64]

I used a new aftermarket gasket but couldn't get it to seal all the way. I made the mistake of using Permatex RTV black to remedy the oil leak. Of course I found several post warning against it's use AFTER I seized the engine. I have a NOS gasket coming in the mail. Will all liquid gasket makers have bits that break off? What about Honda bond?

There were no little silicon bits at the oil screen. If there are bits in the oil pathways, is there a way to blow out them out without fully disassembling the engine?

Also, is it possible to install the right side engine cover if the oil pump idle gear is not seated all the way?

 

[crazypj]

There is a locating pin on oil pump idler gear shaft, it has to be located properly.
If the cover wouldn't fit flush I hope you didn't use the screws to pull it down?
The very minimum would be remove clutch cover and head/cylinders, the oilway that would get blocked is at cylinder base

 

[rockcitycafe]

the filter cap shouldn't matter, as long as it was on there and circlipped in properly, the ribs keep things lined up, but it's not going to spin freely if they're not mated together, I'd put my money on the idler gear as well... it sounds like a complete lack of lubrication to the top end and cylinders, I don't know anything else that would sieze an engine in less than a mile

 

[jdub64]

PJ, I did not screw down the clutch cover and verified that it would not be possible to install the clutch cover if the gear is not in the right place.

Finally got around to taking the head off last night. It appears the top end has been oil starved for some time. I'm pretty sure I already know the answer but based on the photos below, will the head, head cover, cam or right side rockers arms be salvageable?

 

[mydlyfkryzis]

Just look for a whole replacement head. The CB360, CL360 heads all work as well.

 

[loganrm]

If you need some confirmation, check out my build thread. Same issue, same result, on to motor #2.

 

[loganrm]

Also, nice SVT set up in the avatar there. My back still hurts.....

 

[Sonreir]

Cam looks like it might be OK. Need more pics.
The head is toast, but the first set of rocker arms looks fine. Second set are questionable.

 

[jdub64]

It appears the hunt is on then.

Thanks for the Ampeg love. The cab in the avatar is the 410HLF. Thank god it has wheels. They at least get me to the stairs a little faster.

Sonreir, Here is a better photo of the cam. I wasn’t sure if grove in the photo is supposed to be there. The lobes do not have near as much wear at the rocker arms.

 

[Sonreir]

Sorry... that groove is not meant to be there. Probably time for a new cam as well.

 

[crazypj]

Everything is salvageable, problem is, it's not economically salvageable
If you have machining capabilities you could shrink a sleeve onto cam and bore head for bearing.
Rockers can be built up and re-ground (actually not too difficult but a bit expensive at around $50.00 each)
The other issue, did you find out why its oil starved?
Oil feed comes into the main gallery on right side and the right side is where you have problem.
It's more common for left side to have an issue

 

[loganrm]

I rolled that SVT 8x10 around for a few years...not fun. I ended up getting a nice little deal with Aguilar at the time and switched to a 2x10 rig! Best choice of my life.

If you run into some honey hole of 360 top end parts lemme know and I'll do the same for you. I was hunting a few months back when mine did this and the stuff was expensive! I ended up getting a whole bike with a running motor for $150.00 bucks. Ugly as all get out and one of the motor mounts was broke but she got me through the season.

 

[jdub64]

So, the top end has been rebuilt and she fires right up. The manual say if I leave the tappett covers off I should see oil splashing around after 10 seconds. Anyone have a idea of how much oil I would see? Very small droplets, heavy splashing? I verified all oil pathways were free and clear before installing the head but I'm still a like a definitve ,"yes, that top end is well lubricated" before taking it for a spin.

 

[crazypj]

At idle there will only be a few drops, even at 5,000 rpm there isn't too much, most is thrown onto intake side by cam lobe

 

[jdub64]

Thanks PJ. I can see oil spinning off of the rocker shaft when I roll the throttle. After I let the bike idle a bit, I took it for a short spin (the same two laps that locked the engine up last time) and it is still running hot. I think removing the oil pump and opening the bottom half of the engine case will be my next steps. Since it will be cold most of the weekend, I see no better use of my time.