What I will be working on this Summer.

[coolatula]

I have a TON of projects I need to finish this year and with no heat in the garage that just puts me more behind,but this one will be a labor of love just like my Hodaka project.

I'm going to model it after a late 30's-50's Grand Prix/Indy car.

The frame is a late 60's Datsun mini truck,nearly fully boxed from the factory and in very good condition as far as rust/thin spots. It must have came from a NO SALT region. My buddy owns a scrap yard and I had my pick of frames,but like my 84 they were ALL rusted too much. This one was by far the oldest,lightest and in the best condition.

The drivetrain will be from a 1984 Nissan/Datsun mini,2.0L 4 cylinder,std shift I have in the garage. The torsion bar front suspension will have to go because I plan to set the engine/trans down and back and try to get as close to a 50/50 weight distribution as I can. I will go with coil-overs to replace the torsion bar set up and also use coil-overs on the rear in conjunction with at least some of the leaf springs. The wheels will be replace with some plain Jane steel Toyota rims and some larger diameter skinny tires.

It won't be very fast by any stretch,but it will undoubtedly out handle a stock Datsun mini truck and have a lot less weight to haul around.

Here's a few pics of what I'm starting with(ain't much)! ;D
Side views

Top rear view

The frame will be narrowed in the rear to just about match the front width and will clear the fuel cell by about 1-2" on each side.

Front views

I love the old Grand Prix/Formula/Sprint/Indy cars like these.
Some have videos that are pretty cool. Just hearing these old powerful race cars puts a smile on my face! ;D
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/silver.jpg
http://www.legacydiecast.com/xq/asp/id.CMC033/qx/review.htm
http://mini.werner.med.br/carros5/c109e.htm
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/mercedes-w125.htm
The miller site has some sounds/videos on it
http://www.milleroffy.com/Photo%20&%20Sound%20Gallery.htm
http://vintageracingphotos.smugmug.com/photos/71259320_zJkb7-Ti.jpg
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/alfa-romeo-bimotore.htm
http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/maserati-250f.htm

Here's some YouTube ones:
Mercedes Benz W25, W125, W154
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdVdRMwwRXI&feature=related

1937 Mercedes-Benz W125. Warming up at Goodwood 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dv3Ho4odFA&feature=related

The world's greatest F1 cars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dixRcOQLt70&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOR1tp46G_w&feature=related

 

[Druro]

Very cool project.

Would be really neat to get a straight 6/8 in there... even if it's a truck motor. Would sound awesome with open pipes hanging out the side. ;D

 

[autoguy]

very cool, wish i had the space and money to make something like that, needs a flathead v8 with open pipes, starts to drool ;D

 

[coolatula]

Very cool project.

Would be really neat to get a straight 6/8 in there... even if it's a truck motor. Would sound awesome with open pipes hanging out the side. ;D

I have actually thought of a straight eight and or flat head V8. The big inline or in-line slant sixes or the eights would lend themselves well to a very long,skinny hood line,but not for this project. This one will be a very,very low budget,see what I can do with nothing sort of project. The 84 Nissan was practically given to me(frame rusted nearly in half) and I was lucky enough to find a same kind(Datsun) frame so I figured it would be a good match.

Not shown in the pics,but I have several sheets of pretty thick,and very tough stainless steel sheet metal that I'm going to use for the body sides and hood. Needless to say the body will out live the rest of the car!

I think I will paint the fuel cell silver(?),leave the stainless brushed and paint the hood and nose a Non-glare black(think P-51 Mustang) and paint black strakes(sp) with the same black down the side so the whole sides aren't stainless steel. Don't really know yet I may want a different look when its done,but I will at least do the long,bright hood in flat black to cut down on the glare.

The stock ladder frame will have another tube frame on top and even under parts of it tying it all together so it won't flex like a truck chassis does. Some the the tubes/section will be bolt on to facilitate engine/trans removal. It will basically be a very stiff chassis with a pretty stiffly sprung suspension. The engine and trans will also be solid mounted. I want very little body roll or flex,but will have to sacrifice suspension travel to do it. It won't be a every day car so I can afford for it to ride somewhat rough.

The steering will be a quick ratio,H.D. off road Rack & pinion set up,so I can do away with the stock steering box.

Someday I want to build a no holds barred lightweight tube chassis Grand Prix replica with an all hand formed aluminum body,with huge brakes,quick change rear end and powered by a fuel injected Mercedes or Jaguar V12! ;D VROOOM VROOOM

 

[mysta2]

Well if your in Texas I might have a low budget motor for ya. I'll be pulling a perfectly good 144 I6 out of my '62 Ranchero once I'm ready to drop the 200 I just bought in. There's a lot of motor work in store for the 200 between now and then, and the 144's not exactly a champ in the world of motors, but the price is right and it'd be a great fit...

just putting it out there.

What are your' intentions for the car? Is there a specific series you're building it for?

 

[coolatula]

Well if your in Texas I might have a low budget motor for ya. I'll be pulling a perfectly good 144 I6 out of my '62 Ranchero once I'm ready to drop the 200 I just bought in. There's a lot of motor work in store for the 200 between now and then, and the 144's not exactly a champ in the world of motors, but the price is right and it'd be a great fit...

just putting it out there.

What are your' intentions for the car? Is there a specific series you're building it for?

Thanks for the offer,but I'm a long ways from Texas!

I'll be building the car/truck thingy just to drive around on the back roads and old hi ways around central Indiana. I've always loved the thought of driving an open wheeled car like the old rally and cross country racers used to do way back when it was more acceptable to drive opened wheel racers on real public roads. I guess I would just like to get a little taste of history and what it was like to drive a car that if not in performance at least in appearance looks like something you would see in an old time road race or rally/time trial.

I have always been fascinated by the old Grand Prix/Formula cars of the late 30's to mid 50's. When I think of what the PERFECT race car should look and sound like these types of racers is what pops into my head. All the way from the Alfas to the Indy Specials. Most of theses big engined or supercharged cars would STILL be considered scary fast and very high performance even by today's standards even though some were built over SEVENTY years ago. That's is just mind blowing to me and I want to pay homage in some way to that by gone era and that's the only good real reason why I want to build such an impractical car like this. Who knows,I may actually ENJOY driving the thing and using it to haul around my vintage bikes/boat that I also need to finish rebuilding. Unless I build some sort of rear rack or haul my trailer I don't really see me doing any very long trips with the car. I will most likely keep it to within one full days driving distance.

One thing I WOULD like to do with the car is to drive it on old U.S. 40(America's Road) across the state of Indiana in stages at least and take a picture in each city,town,village along the route and maybe talk to a few residents of these towns as well. Not that I particularly like driving U.S. 40 because I DON'T,but none the less it was a great achievement in this country's history. I've never wanted to do that on a bike or just in any old car or truck,but it would somehow seem more fitting to do it in an open wheeled car I put together myself. Even if it took a whole Summer to finish up I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor. ;D

 

[rockets of the metal man]

If you could find the turbocharger from a 1980's Datsun 2.0 Turbo that would pep it up a bit. The Sylvia and Cherry both had 4cyl turbos in I think. I'm not sure if they were imported to the US, but I guess if we got them here you would have too.

 

[coolatula]

If you could find the turbocharger from a 1980's Datsun 2.0 Turbo that would pep it up a bit. The Sylvia and Cherry both had 4cyl turbos in I think. I'm not sure if they were imported to the US, but I guess if we got them here you would have too.

Thanks for the suggestion,but I think I will leave the engine pretty much stock for reliability purposes. I'll just re-jet the carb,run a larger air cleaner,clean up the ports,add headers and a larger,straight through exhaust and call it done.

If I went the turbo charged route I'd just switch out the powertrain with a 280/300ZX Turbo or a Toyota Supra Turbo and get a lot more torque and H.P..

What I'd like to see is other builders going this route and striping down these old pick-up trucks that are littering the junk yards as they are destined to meet the crusher at some point. That just seems like such a waste of a good frame and the building block for a pretty cool roadster or opened wheel race replica. I'm just surprised more people haven't done it and taken advantage of the ready available,cheap,easy to find,easy to modify mini truck chassis to use for project such as this.


It is quite easy to move the drivetrain to the rear and down to get the engine off the front suspension,especially if it doesn't have a torsion set-up like mine has. This should improve the weight bias dramatically,lower it's center of gravity and allow it to handle more like a long wheel based car. And the added benefit is you can now run a much lower hood line,lower the seating etc. which would make for a much sleeker looking car than just sticking a car body over a normal truck chassis.

 

[mysta2]

Back roads driving would be awesome in it... I just can't imaging the trouble trying to hang a plate on it.

Have you ever seen the documentary SuperSpeedway? It follows the building of a modern (at the time) racecar along side of the restoration of Mario Andrettis first race car. At the end there's a bunch of footage of Mario driving the thing all over the backroads around where the guy restored it.

 

[Druro]

Thought this might interest you.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332620

Love the look of this motor:

 

[coolatula]

Back roads driving would be awesome in it... I just can't imaging the trouble trying to hang a plate on it.

Have you ever seen the documentary SuperSpeedway? It follows the building of a modern (at the time) racecar along side of the restoration of Mario Andrettis first race car. At the end there's a bunch of footage of Mario driving the thing all over the backroads around where the guy restored it.

Haven't seen that one,but it sounds interesting.

I also really like the DVD/T.V. series done with ex-race car driver/commentator David dicantinea(sp? I have no clue how you spell his last name). It was a high budget,multi-camera angle show of him driving various vintage race cars,many of which were old open wheeled Grand Prix/Formula type cars. The series was beautifully produced and I'd like to someday get the whole series.

 

[coolatula]

Thought this might interest you.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332620

Love the look of this motor:

That's pretty cool,I thought it would be neat to stick four motorcycle carbs or a couple of Webbers made for a VW on my Datsun engine,but I didn't want to get into the expense and time to fab up all the bits. The stacks/air cleaners would look very cool though sticking out the side of the hood and sucking in air.

My neighbor when I was kid used to have a old rear engined Chevy Corvair Monza with four carbs. He had to re-set them every few months,but man that thing was cool as hell.

All that stuff I'd really neat and all,but it's with all the other projects I need to get finished it's going to take all I have and then some just to get this old thing put together and running properly,hopefully by the end of Summer.

 

[monteboy84]

Looks like a big project, what's your ETA looking like?

-matt

 

[coolatula]

Looks like a big project, what's your ETA looking like?

-matt

Hopefully to have the chassis narrowed,drivetrain mounted and start working on the add-on round tube frame bits by early Summer(mid-May/mid-June). The body panels,body work,paint,seating,all the little odds and ins etc. mostly done by the end of Summer(mid/late August).

I'd like to have it ready for the road by mid September/October,but I won't drive it much as by that time it will be getting late in the season. I want it ready,fully ready to go,plated,insured etc. by next spring with all the little bugs worked out,so if there is any nice,sunny days next year at this time(like today) I can bring it out for a short 50-60mi. afternoon cruise. That way I'll have all of next year to drive it just about anywhere I want without too much fear it will leave me stranded along to road somewhere.

These engines though seem to go a lot of trouble free miles and usually out live the bodies/frames it appears. This one has I think at least 150,000-160,000 miles on it and only needed a fuel pump to run when I got it. I plan to pull the engine,do a minor rebuild on it this winter once everything is completed on the build and that is to just give me a little more assurance and peace of mind that there are a lot more miles left in it.

If I didn't have so many other things needing worked on I could devote all my project building time into this and have it done by at least the end of July,but that is just not realistic with the stuff I have on the burner at this time.

 

[monteboy84]

Sounds cool. I'd love to do something similar with a Ford 2300 style engine, probably a newer 2500 Ranger motor like we run in our race trucks. Keep us posted, I'm curious to see your progress.

-matt

 

[coolatula]

Sounds cool. I'd love to do something similar with a Ford 2300 style engine, probably a newer 2500 Ranger motor like we run in our race trucks. Keep us posted, I'm curious to see your progress.

-matt

Will do! ;D

One thing,if you also use a Ford chassis everything may fit right in,but the Ranger,Toyota and S-10 etc. chassis are quite a bit heavier than the older Datsuns. Even though mine is nearly fully boxed it's still much smaller and lighter. I couldn't believe the difference until I actually started looking at each of them to replace my 84 chassis.

This old chassis I got also came with an aluminum 3rd member,but the 84 does not. I don't know why they changed? It could have been strength,cost?

I know drag racers were getting about 300 H.P. out of a built 2.3L Ford back in the day.