360 Timing challenge for a sensei!

This is a step by step on how I've set my timing using a test light;

Points :

set at .014 (I took the cam seal bolt off to use the indicator mark for the points gap for fail safe) Is there a correct way to do this? Set points gap on compression stroke? Or is it all the same? I've noticed their are times when both points are open even after finishing the timing? So..WTF? But even without taking the cam seal bolt off (10mil) it's clear to see which is the widest opening.

I continue for your entertainment!

Timing for left cylinder:

While making sure I'm on compression stroke I've set the LF mark with the plate (intake valve closing and feeling the crank want to roll over the LF mark) It's literally dead on. I've double checked it once i've tightened it because I know that the smallest movement will throw things off. So with the points set and the plate moved to the right spot to hit the LF mark on the dot the left cylinder is looking good.


Timing for right cylinder:

Coming off the LF mark moving straight to the F mark I've adjusted the points gap accordingly to see that test light shine once I hit the indicator mark off the stator.

So simple right?

Then BOOM straight to the F mark for the right cylinder I've adjusted the gap so its dead on the indicator mark from the stator.
And same procedure as far as double checking once i've tightened everything to double check it's still dead on.

Now when I go to kick it over i'm feeling compression as I should BUT it fires and pops super loud as if my timing is 180 off.
It won't even idle or anything like that. I've checked my coils from the diagram i've provided and I've also checked by grounding the spark plugs to the engine just to make sure they're working properly. (just trying process of elimination)

Fuel is there
Spark is there
Timing?

What am I missing? I feel like the good ol' owners manual leaves a bit of detail out considering this problem and timing. I'm so lost with this - please tell me I'm missing something before I give up and waste my money by having someone else fix it.

Have you done a compression test?
Have you set the valves?
Are your condensors good?
Is your battery good and strong?

New battery
New condenser/points/plate
Compression 140/140 which is not perfect but it should be enough to get it going. I only say that because the last 360 I had was 145 across the two cylinders and it was solid as a rock.

Valves? Follow up on this - would this lead to my problem? I wouldn't imagine valves being a tad bit off not letting it even start -


but then again here I am posting to this forum...

Plugs are wet after kicking a few times?

Plugs are wet!


I cleaned my carbs earlier TODAY(/jets/air passages and hit the fuel passages with the compressor to clear anything out and it was golden)


As far as what I've described with timing this bad boy does it seem like I've missed anything? I just don't understand when I kick it a couple times it'll pop from both cylinders and then if I keep kicking and kicking it'll pop super loud and then back to popping every other kick or so.


I've had the timing off 180 from my previous bike and it seemed similar but I was able to re adjust and fix it aka i'm getting more and more lost with this issue

Try a few turns on the idle screw and then kicking it over again. Had a similar situation on my 360 where the throttle plates were actually closed too much to allow enough air in. You can also hold the throttle open a bit and kick it to test.

Ah efffff mate do you think that would solve the problem?


I'm 2.5 turns out right now and i've tried cracking the throttle a bit while I kick it to see if that helps and its the same problem.


I have the carbs completely open right now (no filters) I do have pods for the carbs but for the sake of getting it started
I'm running open headers with baffles/115 mains and floats set at 19.5 vs stock at 18.5mm
I've had this same set up before on a previous 360 and it ran absolutely flawless so i'm replicating a previous build essentially. Given the fact it wont even start I know it might not be completely relevant but thats just the set up it's at right now.

I'm having a mechanic come out on Sunday to take a look at the timing to see if theirs something i've missed aka i've given up -

renslow said:

Ah efffff mate do you think that would solve the problem?


I'm 2.5 turns out right now and i've tried cracking the throttle a bit while I kick it to see if that helps and its the same problem.

Click to expand...

Not the mixture screw(s), the idle screw.

This bad boy:



Go a few more turns in and try again.

Since you're already here -

You're in Eugene, right?

Ohhh you SOB I'll give that a shot.


I'm having a consecutive pop pop pop when I kick it. I feel the compression build up as if the next kick is going to start it up but then as if it builds up I get a super loud POP like a freaking gun shot - would opening that adjustment help that? Even if i do crack the throttle every time I kick it just to see if anything helps?

Soneir you should get paid for doing this, you know that right?

renslow said:

Soneir you should get paid for doing this, you know that right?

Click to expand...

The paypal address is sales@sparckmoto.com. ;D

Sonreir said:

You're in Eugene, right?

Click to expand...

My man, just realized my inbox was filled with discussion about this POS bike

I'm still in Eugene at the moment - about 2 minutes away from the University.


I'd hate to drag you over here over some stupid problem aka I'd rather fulfill your Friday night with these questions

Do you think the carbs being waaay way out of sync would cause this problem? When I kick it over a couple times it pops and pops super loud and I had a backfire through one of my carbs.

I want to blame it on timing but i know for a fact that it's timed right.

When i cleaned out the carbs i kept the assembly together so i wouldnt mess up whatever sync it had to begin with.
But now that I think about it maybe they aren't synced properly to begin with?

Does anyone else have any input on this?

If so do you know if theirs like a baseline setting to start syncing the carbs? As far as the sync screw inbetween the carbs.

Yeah... the idea is that the butterfly valves open and close in sync and at the same amount.

With the carbs on the bench, I stick a paperclip in at the bottom of the butterfly valves to prop them open just a little bit. Then you adjust the sync screw to make sure both valves are open an equal amount.

Hopefully i'll have time to do this today. I'll respond later with results

http://xj650.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-bench-synch-your-carbs.html

Did a bench sync on the carbs. The idle adjustment was seized - the butterflys were closed shut. I opened the butterflys just enough for a sliver of light to shine through and they were synced dead on as far as the paperclip test.


I was really hoping for them to be way off but we'll see what happens when i put them back on the bike. :-\

I'm having similar issues on a 350, would love to know if that was the fix!

Won't be able to throw the carbs back on the bike till Saturday. From what the carbs were set at I don't think that was the issue. Ill come back Saturday night with udpates.

Well....Still nothing.

So I have a question about the points. When I'm checking the left cylinder the light hits right at the 'LF' mark exactly how it should but i notice that it stays on pretty much untill i get to the right cylinder at 'F' mark. The 'F' mark lights up right on point as well but it seems like the LF point should close way before that...right?

I'm really close to giving up and throwing down another 150 bucks to buy a gasket kit/bolt kit and rebuilding the motor. Basically trying to start all the way over. Won't necessarily fix the issue i'm having now but it'll give me something productive to do with this bike

:-[