76 CB360, Cherry Bomb at Barber's
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Foolishdreamer
New Member
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Nice!!
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Nice!!
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Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Right on! That is awesome.
Right on! That is awesome.
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360
that is very cool
but fluctuations at idle or any speed are not caused by the float level going up and down
the float level does not change much while even riding and it has very little efect on any mixture
you must thinmk the thing is just slurping an enormous amount of gas at idle to where the naturasl stsate of the float and how it actually operates cant keep up ? uh uh nope :
trek97 said:
that is very cool
but fluctuations at idle or any speed are not caused by the float level going up and down
the float level does not change much while even riding and it has very little efect on any mixture
you must thinmk the thing is just slurping an enormous amount of gas at idle to where the naturasl stsate of the float and how it actually operates cant keep up ? uh uh nope :
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Or simply the nature of the 40 yr old beast. Im sure, discrepancies in mechanicals of the thing play a major role. There are points when the rhythmic fluctuation between the two will kinda "sync" up and paying close attention I can hear the fluctuation taking place. Its subtle, but its there.
Thats whats makes me think it could be the level in the bowls, leaning out a bit as level drops, then float opens and dribbles in a drop or two, raising level to richen her back up...repeat. Occasionally getting an extra drip past the float needle and going even a tad richer.
Do I think its sucking down gallons of fuel at idle...no. It dont take much of a tweak on an A/F adjuster to make a change in the numbers. The thing is surprisingly sensitive. When it can detect an 1/8 turn, adding/subtracting, atomized fuel to all the air its getting. I think thats pretty darn amazing.
What do you think it is?
Or simply the nature of the 40 yr old beast. Im sure, discrepancies in mechanicals of the thing play a major role. There are points when the rhythmic fluctuation between the two will kinda "sync" up and paying close attention I can hear the fluctuation taking place. Its subtle, but its there.
Thats whats makes me think it could be the level in the bowls, leaning out a bit as level drops, then float opens and dribbles in a drop or two, raising level to richen her back up...repeat. Occasionally getting an extra drip past the float needle and going even a tad richer.
Do I think its sucking down gallons of fuel at idle...no. It dont take much of a tweak on an A/F adjuster to make a change in the numbers. The thing is surprisingly sensitive. When it can detect an 1/8 turn, adding/subtracting, atomized fuel to all the air its getting. I think thats pretty darn amazing.
What do you think it is?
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
I thought about it could be in the mechanical timing. Minuscule amounts of play in the springs or whatever. But I dont know that it would be as rhythmic and steady as it is, considering its idling at 1200rpm. If that were the case.
I thought about it could be in the mechanical timing. Minuscule amounts of play in the springs or whatever. But I dont know that it would be as rhythmic and steady as it is, considering its idling at 1200rpm. If that were the case.
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
i wonder if its voltage fluctuation or ac ripple thru the rectifier or simply the draw of the sensor heater cutting in and out
i think it would be easy to hook the meter up to a test battery instead of the bike and see if that changes it
i wonder if its voltage fluctuation or ac ripple thru the rectifier or simply the draw of the sensor heater cutting in and out
i think it would be easy to hook the meter up to a test battery instead of the bike and see if that changes it
Foolishdreamer
New Member
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Could it be a variation in spark caused by points ignition?
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Could it be a variation in spark caused by points ignition?
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Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
I may try that (one day) Cause when I calibrate it. Im just powering it off the battery (bike not running) sensors are in free air. (sensors removed from pipes) If I did that w the thing powered up, with the bike actually running. I wonder if the rhythm would show up???
Hmmmm.
cxman said:
I may try that (one day) Cause when I calibrate it. Im just powering it off the battery (bike not running) sensors are in free air. (sensors removed from pipes) If I did that w the thing powered up, with the bike actually running. I wonder if the rhythm would show up???
Hmmmm.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
That's pretty cool.
Are you still using 65 primary main jet and a smaller pilot?
Fluctuation is due to the voltage measurement, only really reads from about 0.1v to 0.9v but usually less than 0.2v variation doesn't register so great.
The valves opening change O2 in exhaust gas, 'rich' to 'lean'
Interesting to see it only went around 15:1 when throttle opened, pretty sure VM gets a lot leaner (or richer when 'stock' jetted)
I got hold of a few O2 sensors but need the gauge, which one are you using?
That's pretty cool.
Are you still using 65 primary main jet and a smaller pilot?
Fluctuation is due to the voltage measurement, only really reads from about 0.1v to 0.9v but usually less than 0.2v variation doesn't register so great.
The valves opening change O2 in exhaust gas, 'rich' to 'lean'
Interesting to see it only went around 15:1 when throttle opened, pretty sure VM gets a lot leaner (or richer when 'stock' jetted)
I got hold of a few O2 sensors but need the gauge, which one are you using?
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Thanks dude!
I dont really understand all that electro-jargon you just put out there. But I really dont need to. All I know is that the thing works.
To be perfectly honest its been long enough I dont recall exactly what my current jetting setup really is.
After looking in my big-ol-box-o-jets. ..
I might have 41, 62, 110, stock needles, soldered (downsized) primary nozzles, drilled.
But after the ride I just took. It goes pretty rich upon accel.
Opposite of the garage vid. Its much different under load.
The 41 keeps it from dying on decel to stop. Due to the 62 and smaller nozzle.
I really believe the biggest problem lies w the taper on the needle. I need to find a tiny lathe so I can start making needles.
Just so ya know. the numbers remain virtually identical swapping between stock filters/boxes w the K&Ns needing only a minor tweek on A/F adjusters. The big difference is the K&Ns let her lean out a bit above 6k. = giving better performance. Under 6k I cant see any difference.
Im gonna send you an email later this evening.
crazypj said:
Thanks dude!
I dont really understand all that electro-jargon you just put out there. But I really dont need to. All I know is that the thing works.
To be perfectly honest its been long enough I dont recall exactly what my current jetting setup really is.
After looking in my big-ol-box-o-jets. ..
I might have 41, 62, 110, stock needles, soldered (downsized) primary nozzles, drilled.
But after the ride I just took. It goes pretty rich upon accel.
Opposite of the garage vid. Its much different under load.
The 41 keeps it from dying on decel to stop. Due to the 62 and smaller nozzle.
I really believe the biggest problem lies w the taper on the needle. I need to find a tiny lathe so I can start making needles.
Just so ya know. the numbers remain virtually identical swapping between stock filters/boxes w the K&Ns needing only a minor tweek on A/F adjusters. The big difference is the K&Ns let her lean out a bit above 6k. = giving better performance. Under 6k I cant see any difference.
Im gonna send you an email later this evening.
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Look up lambda sensor. They work similarly to a thermocouple, in that the computer translates the difference in charge to a reading. A lambda sensor uses zirconium while a thermocouple uses dissimilar metals. A Type K like I use in ceramics is chromel and alumel.
Look up lambda sensor. They work similarly to a thermocouple, in that the computer translates the difference in charge to a reading. A lambda sensor uses zirconium while a thermocouple uses dissimilar metals. A Type K like I use in ceramics is chromel and alumel.
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
And to add to that, best economy is at 15.4:1 and best power is 12.6:1. Acceleration requires more fuel that steady state.
14.7:1 is just a number. Think of it this way, most power is made when all the oxygen is used up even if some unburned fuels left over and that's 12.6:1. Best economy is when all the fuel is used regardless of the surplus oxygen. That's a slight oversimplification but since teh burn is never complete, there is always some unburned fuel and some unburned oxygen, we can make the most out of that imperfect situation.
And to add to that, best economy is at 15.4:1 and best power is 12.6:1. Acceleration requires more fuel that steady state.
14.7:1 is just a number. Think of it this way, most power is made when all the oxygen is used up even if some unburned fuels left over and that's 12.6:1. Best economy is when all the fuel is used regardless of the surplus oxygen. That's a slight oversimplification but since teh burn is never complete, there is always some unburned fuel and some unburned oxygen, we can make the most out of that imperfect situation.
Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
Depends on the fuel type. I think solid rocket fuel burns 100% :
Depends on the fuel type. I think solid rocket fuel burns 100% :
Re: New Dual O2 sensors, 76 CB360, the Pig
That makes a bunch of sense. I think I posted previously the fastest idle I get is approx 12.8 to 1. 8)
I have read in a couple places that air cooled engines will overheat if tuned to run 14 -1 all the time. So it needs to be a touch rich anyways. (liquid cooled engines are fine at 14 -1)
On acceleration (under load) shes getting into the low 11s -1. I would like to see how she acts at 13 -1. But I am so limited w needles w these keihin carbs...ugh. I just stared looking to see if I could come up w "standard" style adjustable needles that can be adapted to fit these carbs.
And the jetsrus needle descriptions are like trying to decipher Chinese rocket science. Cause I know absolutely nothing about it. But, I have found some that have close to same straight shaft diameter. I may be able to trim them to the correct length myself. and just play w the taper and height.
Oh and the much too typical "360 bogs, sputters and cuts out" problem in mid rpm (3k - 5k) Thats due to being too rich. It starts sputtering when it hits 9.X - 1 rich ratio.
I have jetted and modded around that and she runs super, but she still needs a bit of work to run her best.
teazer said:
That makes a bunch of sense. I think I posted previously the fastest idle I get is approx 12.8 to 1. 8)
I have read in a couple places that air cooled engines will overheat if tuned to run 14 -1 all the time. So it needs to be a touch rich anyways. (liquid cooled engines are fine at 14 -1)
On acceleration (under load) shes getting into the low 11s -1. I would like to see how she acts at 13 -1. But I am so limited w needles w these keihin carbs...ugh. I just stared looking to see if I could come up w "standard" style adjustable needles that can be adapted to fit these carbs.
And the jetsrus needle descriptions are like trying to decipher Chinese rocket science. Cause I know absolutely nothing about it. But, I have found some that have close to same straight shaft diameter. I may be able to trim them to the correct length myself. and just play w the taper and height.
Oh and the much too typical "360 bogs, sputters and cuts out" problem in mid rpm (3k - 5k) Thats due to being too rich. It starts sputtering when it hits 9.X - 1 rich ratio.
I have jetted and modded around that and she runs super, but she still needs a bit of work to run her best.
