CB175 rebuild project - Cheaper than Ducati maintenance?

Ok, so the title of this thread might be some indication of where I've been at for the past few months... but after many months of drooling over various cafe racers online (the lust started after seeing a customised new Triumph Thruxton) I have decided to jump in the deep and and try and build my own.

There are however two catches to this...

1. I am not really the mechanically minded type - (but I'm willing to learn - this CB175 is actually my practice rebuilding project before I start working on my Dads BMW R75/6)
2. I actually have a budget for this project. Can I rebuild a cb175 (and cafe it) for cheaper than it has cost me over the past 6 months to keep my M900 Ducati Monster running...

After having a pretty rough time of it this year with my Duke, (Coils blew / tank / carbi issues / electrical issues) I decided I had finally had enough, and wanted a simpler bike to work on. One that wasn't over engineered - moody and unreliable. Plus, being a smaller sized bike, it might also encourage my other half to start riding (She is tiny so anything bigger really isn't an option - she is shoulder high to Frodo) She wanted a scooter. I said hell no.

So the overall idea is to strip the bike down, replace the seals / gaskets and whatever else needs replacing in the motor - clean it down & paint if needed. Strip and respray the tank and frames / custom build cafe seat / new bars / rearsets etc etc....

So here is the start of my Boxing Day Project...

Before shot of my bike in the garage - CB175 takes priority...



Before shot - Bike was missing its seat when I picked it up - two bins of spares though...



Another inglorious before shot...



The original manual + photocopied version + Honda parts list book... Plus spares under the counter...



Final before shot of the motor and various wires.



Tank / Engine removed...



About to get pulled apart...



Almost totally Stripped...



Not bad for an afternoons work...
Next step (I think) will be to pull apart the motor, clean it & replace the seals and gaskets...

Looks like its too late to compare. Your into the build now. Whether its more or less then the duke. Your in for it! Good on you too. Im sure youve noticed theres lots of 175s on here, so learn or teach or both. Happy boxing day to you!

interesting comparison, but flawed I think. I have a 900ss (your bikes first cousin) and it has been maintenance free. However, my carby is a little (ahem) modified, but still flawless. the only maintenance has been the headset (which IS a piss-poor design) but the rest, purr-fect. I can honestly say that my ducati is the least maintenance heavy of all my bikes.

That being said, I think any time you compare labor rates to your own labor, you will win. That little 175 will have "soul" like your m900, but it will never be the bike your m900 is. I would urge you to use this as a journey into motorhead life, and see if you dig it. Then take what you learn on the cl175 and put it into practice on il monstro.

The biggest weakness on the carbed ducs are the carbs and the coils. Dyna-coils and 30mins fixes the coils, and fcr's fix the mikuni cv issues. mikuni cv's take a lot of maintenance, but they do have a choke, and other circuits that the fcr's don't. The carb kit alone for the duc is 1000.00, but so is any other fcr kit for just about any other bike.

Here's a free fix for your electrical woes:

Replace the starter cable and your ground cables on the duc with 4ga welding wire. Then unplug your headlight harness, clean it with contact cleaner, then use di-electric grease. Do that on all of your electrical connections. If it was your stator that went, well, that just sucks on any ride.

Good luck on the 175, and trust me - you will get a lot on that 175 for the cost of stealership rates/parts!!!

j

Hey Will, Welcome! I am watching with interest. I have just started a "73 CB200 I should have mine at the same point you are at later today. lets keep watching and bounce ideas. I have done one other frame up resto and I spent too much money. but alot of that was just clicking away at the mouse with out really thinking it through. I have set a budget for my build of $700 (u.s.) and I am really going to try to stick to it. check out my thread we can probably help each other out a lot!

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=12456.0

Happy New Year!!

@ Diesel450 -Cheers mate, playing on a budget is fun, and if you have any tips / ideas / suggestions feel free to let me know!

@ beater - I know it is a totally flawed comparison, and it is more the start of my mechanical journeys... I just wanted something simple to ride that if -heaven forbid- it breaks down and I need to get the Carbies out (or anything else for that matter) it doesn't take me an hour because of great Italian over-engineering!

Trying to get into the carbies on the M900 means getting the tank up - airbox cover off - unscrewing the little screws holding the airbox lip in place (there are like 12 - with a heap at strange angles making it almost impossible) - and then you are at the carbies. In the cb175 they just pop off the side after 2 screws come out and you remove the cable and needle... so much easier.

I guess I feel that at the moment the M900 is a little big and intimidating (and expensive) for me to start trying to mess around on it myself - at least for now anyways.

Looks a lot like my 175 when I first got it! Same paint scheme and generally the same condition. Looks like you're already finding how easy it is to tear this one down... A lot easier to put it all back together. The devil is in the details with these small bore horses. Good luck on your rebuild! Can't wait to track the progress...

looks like you have a good project on your hands. i need to pick me up a parts book and og manual. my clymer helps a bit but not as much as other manuals i have seen. good luck

Ok,

So it was a little slow on the bike build yesterday... I got distracted going through the two tubs of spares that came with the bike...

Spare lights / headers / speedo's / tachos / battery boxes / part of a motor etc etc... I will sort through a lot of this stuff and take what I need, and farm the rest out eventually...




Then I moved onto playing (almost literally) with the carbies... the old owner just put some old random filter (looks like microphone cover from the 80's to me) to keep stuff clean while he had it sitting in the yard. So of course, that is going to go.


I opened them up (such an easy design with a simple clip - way better than trying to loosen four stubborn screws on my old ducati ) and was surprised - they looked pretty good apart from a tiny bit of a sticky residue on the top inside of the cover... looked like a semi-dried oil or something...



I also wasted some time playing with the speedos /tachos to work out which ones I think I will use...



Settled on these two I think... I know they aren't standard cb175's but I figure I will probably get some custom dials made up (and besides -the rest measure in MPH vs KPH - and our Australian speed limits are in KM's - I don't want to be that guy desperately trying to do conversion maths at speed when the cops go past...)



And that is about as far as it got, my girlfriend ended up getting distracted and bothering me and testing out her new bike... a little premature though...


Starting to pull the engine apart tonight!

I'm one step ahead of ya buddy! 8) My motors apart today and a right mess I might add. Hey, those foam filters aren't necessarily junk, foam filters work great in certain apps so don't just toss em, they have some value.

I'll hold onto them...

Don't happen to know a remedy for bolts / screws that have seized on the engine casing do you? I have a nasty feeling I'm about to encounter some! If I get caught out I'll just drown them in WD40 and leave them overnight... then attack them with an impact drill...

If theres any failing with this project its that it didn't come with enough gauges. Ha! Man, spoiled for choice...

Anywho, like the bike and like where you're taking it, especially if its a project to get your gf on the road. Always thought thats a very nice gesture. Sentimentality aside, definitely hear you on the km/h vs mph thing. It might not go as fast as you'd like, but I've had a mate lose his licence for fanging an old-school Mini. 135km/h at top whack and a cop busted him...geez he was irritated.

Meanwhile, if you're in the engine you could always fit lighter pistons or performance camshafts etc...but probably the best thing for it (and the cheapest) is new bearings and piston rings. The new bearings don't have to be main and top-end, but I'd look into it as they shouldn't be more than $10 a piece and will give smooth running and a fair whack of longevity. Couple that with new rings for compression and power....and the bike will be in top nick (almost). You could also look into thin base gaskets to bump compression up a tad, although I'd be loathe to do this without the former bearing and ring replacements.

Cheers - boingk

Thats what I do. soak em and leave em. I used a hand held imapct drill. I had one real sticky one on the starter and I actually ended up breaking the starter case I hit it so hard. ooops :, not to worry it was coming off anyway. Best money you can spend is one of those stainless bolt kits for like $18.00 to replace em. Good luck and have fun.

pick up a hand held, hammer struck impact driver. unbelievably handy to have. impacts strip things too easily.

j

beater said:

pick up a hand held, hammer struck impact driver. unbelievably handy to have. impacts strip things too easily.

j

Click to expand...

+1! I just got one a couple months ago and don't know how I worked without it now

One more kick on the dead horse here... BUY AN IMPACT DRIVER ASAP! An air impact (or even a good electric) can eff things up and strip screws/bolts just as easily as you can with a wrench if your not careful. An impact driver is a MUST. And try PB Blaster instead of WD40. WD40 isnt a very good penetrant so it mostly just sits on top of the screws. PB will work its way in and loosen just about anything up. There slogan is "bust a nut with PB Blaster"... I called them once to ask them a question about a product they made, and they sent me a box full of hats and pocket knives with there logo and "bust a nut" on them... Its also great for spraying on metal that you dont want to rust. Soaks right in.

The PB Blaster reminded me - if you can find Aero Kroil you should def try it. My brother in law used some of mine and swore off the PB Blast. Everybody I know that uses it absolutely loves it

I started taking apart the motor with my old man the other day... realised that both of us are terrible at reading manuals. Typical males = Try first = fail = read manual as last resort (usually followed by the statement "oh, that's a much easier way of doing it").


Rigged up a very crude engine mount so it sits flush on the bench (Just found an old square piece of 19mm thick timber - drilled a hole for the oil drain plug to sit in hey presto, engine sits flat now, doesn't slide around etc etc)


Had to move the engine to the ground to lever the head off... what we found underneath wasn't entirely promising...


The piston heads are caked with residue - some of the piston rings have clamped shut on themselves (they don't expand to fill the cylinder



The cylinders don't look too bad themselves - but there is a tiny bit of scoring inside... I'm debating if I should get a new pistons / rings set (from ebay for like $80) - or if I can just polish the pistons and cylinders up - put in new rings and carry on my merry way...




I don't have a pic of it either - but the cam chain tensioner had 1 missing rubber tooth on it as well... didn't look too bad, but I am seriously considering grabbing another replacement from somewhere just in case (if you are going to rebuild something, you might as well do it right the first time)

Any ideas / suggestions?

Oh, and I almost forgot...

Happy New Year!

And, as I also ran (as expected) into a few stuck screws in the bottom end of the engine casing - removed the ones I could - soaked the rest in WD40 (it was all I had at the time).
After jumping on dtt this morning (mid afternoon actually), I raced out and picked up an impact driver... (and some primer + paint + wet and dry paper + metal polishing supplies etc etc)

Once I get these bastard screws out I'm replacing them with a stainless steel bolt kit that arrived in the mail along with my gasket and oil seal replacement kits... I love packages that arrive in the mail... Just had some clubman bars arrive that I will probably trim a little (make them a little narrower to suit the bike etc) and am expecting some motobits rearsets any day now!

Now, off to impact the shit out of those screws!

The pistons and bore may well be OK - you'll need to measure them to check if they're still within tolerance. Rings gum themselves shut if the motor has been sitting for a time, so that is not a big surprise.

Hitting screws and bolts before you try to remove them was a trick I leared from an old mechanic I worked with a few years back. Get a flat punch and hit the bolt / screw squarely on it's head (hit it hard - you won't break it ). Gets the threads loosened up and makes taking out old bolts a LOT easier - especially bolts on engines that continually get hot, cold, hot, cold.....

If you decide to go the new top end route let me know, A Fellow DTT'er PM'd me about parts for my bike. He has a rebuilt 175 top end for sale.

Are you splitting the cases and opening the crank case up?