19" Front Rim on CB400F??

jammer415

Been Around the Block
Doing a GSXR front end conversion on a 75 CB400F... Could I get away with upsizing the front wheel to a 2.15x19? (90/90 or 100/90 tire)

And yes I know the CB400F handles great with the 18", but I have a killer deal on a 19" aluminum rim, plus think it looks cooler (like the 550s) and want to try something new.

The rear is going to be 3.00x18 (130/70 tire) in case anyone is wondering.
 
The larger front diameter will raise the front of the bike slightly, increasing the rake. The trail will be increased slightly as well even if you keep the bike "level". The effects are rather small, but both will serve to slow the handling. I have done this to bikes myself with very good results. However, I have a 400F, and I would not increase the front wheel diameter on it as an only change. Your big change will be the much smaller offset on the GSX triples compared to stock. This will add a lot of additional trail. The Suzuki had a lot steeper rake than your 400F, and the offset was appropriate for it and the stiffer chassis. For the record, I am making assumptions about the GSX because am too lazy to look up the specs, but be aware that you are making some possibly very noticeable changes with these two modifications. I would expect straight line stability to improve with a serious detriment to turn in, but it is hard to predict without all the specs in hand.
 
I wouldn't worry to much about the wheel effecting the handling.
The fork swap will be enough to take most of the handling out of the bike.....
 
Thank you for the advice!

Wow ok I didn't realize the GSXR fork would be so detrimental to the handling of the bike. The whole reason I am doing the upgrade is to improve the bike's abilities. I'm more concerned with handling inner city streets/traffic than straight line and love how the 400F handles... and am now reconsidering the swap lol.

I have a set of CB550F forks laying around, would that be a better fitting swap in terms of handling and still upgrading front end suspension?

Thanks again for the help.
 
Bike handling includes not only the suspension parts, but the chassis too. The small Honda's have pretty flexible chassis. That is why stiffer forks and varying the trail and rake don;t always have the effect someone would think they have. Small amounts of stiffening can have some positive effects, but large changes (like fork swaps) can change the nature of the bike. The steering neck in particular can move quite a bit dynamically. A flexible fork can absorb or reduce the effects. When you get a significantly stiffer fork, the flexible chassis can actually add steering inouts, creating an unstable ride.

This is not guaranteed, and the effect will vary by bike, but to really improve handling, significant chassis and fork and suspension changes need to be made. Not saying some mods aren't successful, just that there are a lot of unintended consequences to significant chassis changes....

If you look at good handling bikes, they are more than just a stiff fork. The chassis is designed to be stiff where it needs, and flexible where it needs. To stiff can cause stress fractures, too loose can cause wobbles. Ducati's tend to be good handling. the trellis frame is stiff, the motor is a part of the stressed frame...The components are made to work together. putting a Ducati Fork n my CB360 would not really improve anything as the steering neck and backbone can flex way more than the the Ducati neck.

That's why most chassis mods done by "ordinary" people are for looks, and most often, are detrimental to the safety and handling of the bike.

It is like the 454 Chevy motor put in a Chevy Vega. Looks impressive. Even with he front end reinforced, the first race the whole chassis twisted. The vega was not designed to withstand the forces a huge HP motor can put on it.
 
Seek out a book writen by tony foale.
Read up on suspension geometry.

There are gains to be had.
But just slapping s front end on ain't the way.

Have seen very few where the math was done and thought was put into it.
Most are playing dress up so they don't care. Or some just don't know better and are just copying shit from pipeburn
 
Thank you both for the advice! Also I will definitely check out that book.

I must admit that upon seeing so many others putting GSXR forks on 350s/400s/550s, I assumed it was an ideal upgrade, but makes sense that it may not be the case.

So would a 550F fork be a more sensible upgrade to the 400F??
 
Most of what you see on the internet regarding cafe racers on places like Bikefix or pipeburn are non functional junk.
Half dont ever run or see any actual use.

To many people have jumped on the bandwagon and raped it.
 
The 35mm honda forks 450/500 four cylinder/550/750 would all be a slight upgrade.
The 37mm forks from a GL1000 would be something to look at.

GL forks are better and lighter then the 35mm forks.
You also gain an alloy wheel and dual disks
 
Here is a preview version of the Foale book. It gets quite technical and the new version is over 500 pages long, so maybe take a look at this before you decide to buy the book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=84hF-qoR5I8C&lpg=PP1&dq=tony%20foale&pg=PT73#v=onepage&q&f=false

I personally found it very interesting, but I love physics. As Surffly said, there are gains to be made on these old bikes, but it involves looking at the whole bike, not addressing one part of the geometry. If you are looking for better front suspension I would be more inclined to get the Race Tech gold valve emulators before doing any fork swap. If you swap for a 550 fork you just replaced your outdated fork with another outdated fork. The gold valve emulators and progressive springs will help bring your current fork into the 21st century.
 
http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/2/Honda/CB400F%20Super%20Sport/1975-77
 
Wow that book looks amazing, went to order it off Amazon and saw it costs $125! (Must really be good indeed).... I'm gonna try to find a PDF online somewhere first (google books only allow a few pages).

How the GL1000 forks differ from GSXR? They will have a rake/trail more similar to the OEM front end?

Which year GL1000??
 
75-76 GL1000? Then upgrade the springs to progressive would be a more ideal upgrade than GSXR front end?
 
the gl forks damping will be a bit far off be prepared to experiment
but if they actually are lighter than 35's that would be a good thing
35mm would be a good upgrade as well the 33mm forks are pretty flimsy , that said how hard do you plan on riding ? we used to rip the canyons with stock 400 f's, never crashed because the forks flexed
as far as a front wheel just lace up a 1.85 alloy 18" rim
keep the tires near stock size
gixxer forks on a vintage bike are a really just plain dumb
 
I have more experience setting cars up for handling (SCCA autocross), but geometry means more than stiffness. Damping rates, bound and rebound also mean more than stiffness when it comes to handling. This is why slammed cars with no travel and stiff (often progressive) springs often lap the course more slowly than properly set-up (and sometime stock) cars. There is more to handling than a beefy suspension.
 
jammer415 said:
...The rear is going to be 3.00x18 (130/70 tire) in case anyone is wondering.

25.4mm to the inch. A 3.00 wide tire is 3 x 25.4 = 76.2mm, or more equivalent to a 80 cross section. 80/80 x 18 would be the nearest equivalent.

130 mm is 130/25.4 = 5.12 inches. I doubt a 5 inch wide tire will fit in a stock swingarm.
 
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