1981 cb750k in NH

drummingpariah

Building a bettery daily.
I had spent long enough dreaming of owning a bike, and finally broke down and picked up a 1981 cb750k for $800. Since EVERYONE on the internet loves pictures, here it sits:


My only complaints are that it lacks a 6th gear and a kicker. Right now, I have no plans but to ride every day, rain or shine. I suppose I should get some rain gear pretty soon though. I've gone through some of the routine maintenance (adjust the drive chain every 600 miles, according to my Clymer's!), and will run a compression test and get a little deeper into maintenance next weekend. I've been looking for some inspiration on what to do with this once I've rebuilt my cash buffer and can afford to spend some money on it, so feel free to point me to your favorite cb* build threads!

Once I've decided what to do, I'll start a proper build thread on here. 'till then, I think I'll just hang out in noobie-land, where I belong ;D
 
Thanks, I've just been logging miles on it and getting ready for my skills test. "Somehow" one of the front blinkers and mirror broke off (all by itself, of course) so I had to add some glue and tape. I suppose that qualifies as my first modification haha.
 
Rode down to the high school parking lot to practice for a bit, then headed home when it started raining. I stopped for gas, and was pleased to find that my battery was dead when I was finished, and it wouldn't start. Jumpstarted it, rode it home, and the battery's on my trickle charger.

Great day, overall. I had a blast.
 
I'm liking the positive attitude! Welcome to the forum. There are TONS of CBs on the internet. Seriously, just google "CB750 cafe racer" and you'll have plenty of inspiration.
 
I've put just over 450 miles on it so far, and I even wiped off some of the grime that had built up over the years. I'm really starting to enjoy this bike. It certainly feels like it could be a bit more nimble though, and after looking up the stock weights on these, that seems to be validated (450lbs wet seems like a LOT).

As far as inspiration has been going, I'm still not finding much. SOHC cb750's are FAR more popular than DOHC, and it seems like that's mostly because the frame design is different. the DOHC cb750's have a goldwing-like engine-cage rather than a standard backbone, which makes swapping tanks more difficult. Also, the kickstarter on SOHC cb750's appeals to everyone (including me). However, that's not the bike I have.

I suppose my plans are to chop off as much weight as possible while improving the suspension. I have a pair of newer cbr600rr and a cbr1000rr rear shock assemblies, and the idea of a monoshock rear appeals to me greatly. I'm not 100% sold on this plan, since it's so much time and fabrication, and there isn't even any guarantee that it'll be an improvement. I'm not crazy about any of the standard motorcycle trends (cafe, hardtail, streetfighter), and really just want an aggressive, minimalistic touring bike. I LOVE how simple the cb is to work on, so I'd like to use it as a base instead of buying a more modern sport/touring bike.

Anyway, here's some inspiration I've come across, after LOTS of looking:
long_honda_cb750_chopper_cwkchan.jpg


I believe this is the stock tank, and I think it looks absolutely killer. I'll have to do some research on what the stock motion ratios are, and the spring/damper rates, but I may even be able to use the stock cb750 swing arm and adapt it to monoshock.
3100953786_07cace59ee.jpg


(sohc, but the same basic idea)
1969-honda-cb750-2.jpg

1969-honda-cb750-3.jpg
 
I see exactly what you mean. The cb750 frame needs reinforcement no matter what I do, but mounting to the rear subframe is especially silly (read: dangerous). I can't find many good examples of anything I'd get excited about, but these at least inspire me. I suppose I could use the entire rear wheel/swingarm assembly off another bike (VFR, perhaps?) and fabricate a mount for that assembly, including the upper shock mount.

The plan is DEFINITELY to ride, above all else. I like IMPROVEMENTS, not MODIFICATIONS. The best-performing bike for the least amount of effort is what I'm aiming for. I love that this is an air-cooled engine, and like its power curves (if tuned correctly, which mine is decidedly not). I love that it's easy and cheap to maintain. I want to keep those attributes and add the ability to corner meaningfully.

In any event, I figure that I have a year or so before my skills catch up with any of the limitations of this bike. There's no rush to fire up the angle grinder right now. I'll start working on it when I have a sound, solid plan and a reason to upgrade.
 
You've got a good head on your shoulders. I love the inspiration bikes you posted. Any idea what those bikes are?

I'm gonna be monoshock'ing my XJ550 once school gets back in (August 15) and I move into my new house. You're welcome to follow along to see if it would be something you're interested in and if it pays off for me in the end. I don't have a build thread for it yet, but I'll try to get a PM to you when I do. Any more pictures of YOUR bike? Would like to see more.

Probably the easiest and more surefire way to improve handling/cornering is a set of good tires. Metzler Lasertec comes highly recommended.
 
The Red and White bike was custom made by Bryan Fuller of (Fuller Hor Rod) for Cafe Racer TV. Met him at Barbers Motorsport Park back in April and he rode that bike over from Atlanta and said he had it up to 120 racing his buddy.

They custom fitted a CBR600 swingarm on to that bike and also did a 836 Big Bore kit on the engine.
 
Thanks to the lot of you, I certainly appreciate all the feedback and potential concerns. It's exactly what I needed, and why I'm here.

I'm nowhere near the handling limits of the bike, and the tires I have on there right now have good handling reviews (Dunlop something-somethings, I had looked them up when the model name was fresh in my mind). I'll take some time to snap some pictures this weekend, since I'm planning to go through my maintenance checklist anyway. It's something I really should have done when I first purchased it, but I chose to ride as much as possible instead.

Swivel:
I really like your style. Straightforward with veins of experience and cynicism laced throughout everything you type. I can get behind that.

I've designed two cantilever rear suspension setups on cars, and from what I can see motorcycle suspension is exactly the same. I just need to make sure the swing arm (control arm) is burly enough to support the upward force of the wheel and the downward force of the bike. I'll do some math to figure out what the tolerances need to be before I do any mockups. I'll have to find out what the actual spring rate is of the OEM springs, keep the same fulcrum point, and try to reproduce the same effective spring rate with the new (probably modified) motion ratio.

I also need to do a bunch of research on fork lengths, rates, diameters, and what will work with this bike's rake. Just looking at the frame, decreasing rake will be very difficult without leaning the frame forward (which is possible, I suppose). Then I'd be looking at a lot of extra math to keep a sane swing arm mounting location and curve though, so I think I'll keep it simple and stick to stock(ish) geometry and decreased weight.

Even just THINKING about this is getting out of hand.
 
Can I tag along on your measurements/math equations? Math has never been my strong suit so it'll be great if I can learn from someone else. Friend of mine has a PhD in engineering and he's working on a cafe, so me and him have been chatting. Maybe I can run things by him and pass it back along to you?

Have you thought about replacing the front end with something different? Like off a GSXXR or something of the sort? Not sure how that would effect geometry and such, but something to think about. I'm sure Swiv will have something to say on this in regards to which front end is best, etc.
 
Welcome to DTT Drummingpariah! I too have a DOHC 750 for my current project (ROCK-IT). Mines a '81 C model compared to your K, and you are right... Even though these bikes are a dime a dozen right now, there just doesn't seem to be much to be found in the way of mods for them.
There are a couple of forums out there that taylor specifically to the DOHC's, maybe you've already checked them out as well. But as far as overall knowledge of customizing bikes, in any mannar, you'd be hard pressed to find a better batch of blokes than right here.
As far as the mono shock set-up goes I can't help. Never even riden one. But when you start talking about decreasing the rake I thought I should chime in and mention "trail".
  • Trail: Distance defined by vertical line from axle to ground and intersect of centerline of steering neck and ground.

raketrail.gif


Not too sure about your K model but my C reportedly has some offset built into the triple tree and since trail is determined by the line drawn through the steering neck, an offset triple DEcreases the trail length (see the red line above). Since you spoke of Automotive suspensions I assume you know what CASTER is and that a certain amount is needed for stability. TRAIL is similar, you need certain amount to help the front be stable at speed. The last thing you want is "tank slappers" at highway speeds after hitting a bump in the road.
I did find this bike while searching out motivation for my build. Other than I think the forks are dropped WAY too far for riding on anything other than the smoothest of surfaces, I am really liking the minimalist look of this bike "Anvil" and would be relatively easy to duplicate.

Anvil-Honda-CB-750-01.jpg
 
Swivel said:
That Anvil DOHC would be great to ride to check walmart parks for shopping carts.At any kink of speed it would be lethal.
Agreed! that's why I stressed the forks are dropped WAY too far. But it sure can't hurt to reinforce the statement! 8)

....Car suspension design has about nothing to add to MC springing and setup,honestly.....
Truth #2, but he is obviously versed in that terminology and theory, just that the applications are like comparing apples and oranges.
 
Great post Hoosier. Very informative. Any idea what the necessary rake/trail numbers are for for the bike to be safe? Are they bike specific and if so how do I calculate the necessary numbers? Also, how does the angle of the bike factor into this? A bobber is obviously leaned much further back than a fighter, so do they need different rake/trail measurements? Lots of bike geometry to consider here...

Edit:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but those forks on the "Anvil" bike are WAY TOO LOW! SUPER UNSAFE! WILL KILL SOMEONE AT SPEED! Person who built that was probably trying to impress celtic armbanded Starbucks aficionados...and hipsters.

Hehe, I kid, I kid. I love Swivel's input. Truly.
 
I wish I had more time to post on here, I'm loving all the input that's coming in. I completely understand that suspension tuning on bikes is nothing like suspension tuning on cars, but the theory behind them is the same (springs are springs, dampers are dampers, and suspension travel is suspension travel. From an engineering standpoint, it's easy. From a figure-out-what-actually-works-for-the-bike standpoint, I'm planning to stand on the shoulders of giants and steal someone else's rake/trail/swing-arm-angle/etc settings as a base point, and tune from there.

I've been riding the snot out of this thing, and racked up enough miles to warrant some real maintenance this weekend. I uncovered quite a bit that I'd like to improve on to make the electrical system more robust, and all the squeaks and squawks coming from the suspension and brakes are a bit unnerving, so once I have a proper budget I'd like to visit those for maintenance. I'm starting to feel comfortable on a bike now, with many hours spent in empty parking lots working on figure 8's, swerves, emergency stops, etc. I've also been taking advantage of the awesome winding roads we have here in NH (if you end up in the area, hit 43, 202, 202a, or 107 for winding hilly scenic countryside). I'm growing into the power levels of the bike more quickly than I'd expected, and might even consider some power adding for next year.

These carbs are horrifically bad. I hate them. I've worked with Mikuni BST carbs in the past, and car carbs (DCOE and quadrajets on my Datsun 240z's, primarily), and they were both much more elegantly simple than these keihins. I don't know if they just tried to meet some emission standards and screwed everything up in the process, or if Keihin just doesn't design carbs very well, but I am NOT impressed. I'm seriously considering swapping some BST's on this and tuning them for the engine. After shakedown and a base tune, that would simplify my life and I assume it'd free up some power in the process. I might have a spare set of BST36SS carbs, which are oversized for the cb750, but I could jet them down to accommodate it. I've read that the cb900f engine was a direct swap into this frame, as well. No clue if that's a valid claim or not, as I haven't had much time to research. It certainly intrigued me, though.

As I said, this weekend was a maintenance weekend. I'd had some difficulty shifting, so I adjusted the clutch cable (which was a little bit of a pain, since there are three separate places to adjust it). It's MUCH better now, but it feels like some clutch plates are warped still. I changed the oil as well, and picked up some new spark plugs. The old plugs were in pretty good repair, and it looks like each cylinder was burning well. That was a big plus. While I had the plugs out, I ran a compression test, and the results were underwhelming, with 165psi, 160psi, 150psi, 151psi (it should be 170psi +/- 14 psi, with even-ness across cylinders being the most important factor).

Pumped the tires up a bit higher than Honda's specifications, which recommend 28psi in the front tire. I went to 38psi, which is what Dunlop recommends, and didn't notice much of a difference. The rear wheel has a few bent spokes, and I'm not quite sure how to address that. Can I just buy new spokes? Do I need to disassemble and rebuild the wheel? Are a few spokes a big deal, or should I just keep riding it?

I've been looking for new grips as well. The current grips are this terrible foam that's old and greasy and clumps apart in my hands whenever I ride for more than a half hour (which is several times a day). I still don't even know how to swap grips, or if there's something special I need to research with the cables, but that's going to be my first modification, I think.

I've also been looking at new bars. Because I have no windscreen, anything over 60mph gets WINDY. I'd prefer to be a bit lower, and I've been considering straight bars (which are about 3" lower and farther forward than my current bars) or clubman bars (which are about half that difference). Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I'll take some real pictures tomorrow, but for now I'll stick you guys with this, just after the compression test and tank reseating:
2012-05-27_18-13-39_277.jpg


It's up on the center stand, it isn't actually THAT tall. In the background, you'll see the Nighthawk 750. In the garage is a Speedmaster, and a 2006 T100 Bonneville in the other bay. This may be MY first bike, but it isn't my first experience with bikes. I also helped out with my buddy Keith's XS650 build:
DSC_0845.jpg


While that's the opposite of what I'd like to own, I can't help but admire the build quality and attention to detail that's gone into it.
 
Swivel said:
Don’t apply car knowledge to bikes, It’s a different world entirely,honestly.....

Honda bikes are not Nissans and Harleys are not tractors.Virtually no car suspension tech is applicable to bikes,trust me I know….

I wasn't arguing that they were, I was arguing that physics is physics, even if the application is different.

Swivel said:
Don’t run more than 32psi on the front,38psi is just plain dangerous on your bike.....

Fixed, I'm at 30psi now (it's been hot lately, and from what I've read, higher psi equates to lower tire temps) in the front, and a correspondingly sane pressure in the back (I don't remember exactly what it was, though).

Swivel said:
Your comp tests seem fine…..

That means that either ignition or fuel must be the reason my idle is terrible. I'll pick up a timing light, and at least borrow a sync tool for the carbs. I'm not crazy about rebuilding these at all.

Swivel said:
Those CV carbs are some of the longest lasting and great running carbs ever fitted to Honda fours and sixes…..

I can appreciate that they last forever, and maybe when they're tuned and sync'd they'll be better, but tuning them is a bit of a messy process according to my Clymer manual. I'll take your word and put in the time on them, but begrudgingly. It isn't the advice I WANTED, but I'm asking because I'm inexperienced and would like help.

Swivel said:
The DOHC 750 can be even better than the CB900F motor with the right hotup parts and a big bore piston kit...

That's what I was hoping to hear.

Swivel said:
Standard K&N superbike bars will give you the best combination,comfort and leverage.....

A cheapo screen or bikini hanblebar fairing would take the wind blast off your helmet.....

I actually like it fairing-less, despite the obvious downsides. It's been growing on me. I don't really like the 'standard/touring' seating position, especially on long rides. I find myself leaning forward a bit as my back starts to get tired. Those K&N bars look like exactly what I was hoping to find. I'll break out the calipers tomorrow and figure out what diameter bars I'll need to order.
 
Carbs probably need cleaned,don't know if the dohc's have hydraulic buckets if not probably need adjusted by now. he's right, sync the carbs.Just general maintenence stuff will make a huge differece.Also allow you to know your beast,make it a little more yours.Nothing like getting to know your bike.Enjoy!
 
I'm really liking the way you work on bikes. Very methodical and clearly coming from a well thought out plan. I like it. Having already caught the bug and jumped into a bike and went chopping before ever riding it, I've come to realize I much prefer to get to know a bike before I make any major mods. That's what I'm doing with my XJ right now. So, It's cool to be doing pretty much the same thing as you're doing: thorough maintenance before the real build.

As far as new grips go, thats probably the easiest mod possible on these bikes. DCC has loads of styles ranging from vintage to supermoto. Not sure how your bars work, but you should just be able to pull them off. If that doesn't work, stick a screwdriver in, spray some windex, and twist the grip around, pulling as you go. Rinse repeat until off. (WD-40 will work, but go with windex if you have it. Cleans easier) Once they are off make sure you clean your bars really well before trying to install new grips. Don't want to be grabbing at the bars in a hair-pin left hander and feel your grips start to twist around. If you need something to get the new ones to slide on use something that evaporates (Read: Water, spit when no water is handy).

I know Swivel likes to remind you the cars are nothing like bikes, but I'd like to ask your thoughts on a mono shock. Any ideas on what I could be thinking about? That's a pretty general question, but I figured it could just get us talking.

By the way. GET SOME MORE PICTURES UP! I want to see this dang bike you keep talking about!
 
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