3003 Ally Tank T500 (Complete!)
- Thread starter johnu
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rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
in addition to your earlier question, I don't actually own many expensive hammers and dollies, I make a lot of them myself, you can actually do a lot with a handmade shotbag (sand works best for aluminum) and a wooden round mallet, or plastic round mallet, a football and teardrop dolly are helpful for lining edges up, HF actually sells a hammer and dolly set that's not so bad once you polish off the casting marks (what's a dolly other than a chunk of steel, it's hard to screw up). I did buy an expensive steel slapper, but I found that a well made piece of flat polished stainless on an angled handle works just as well if not better for planishing.
in addition to your earlier question, I don't actually own many expensive hammers and dollies, I make a lot of them myself, you can actually do a lot with a handmade shotbag (sand works best for aluminum) and a wooden round mallet, or plastic round mallet, a football and teardrop dolly are helpful for lining edges up, HF actually sells a hammer and dolly set that's not so bad once you polish off the casting marks (what's a dolly other than a chunk of steel, it's hard to screw up). I did buy an expensive steel slapper, but I found that a well made piece of flat polished stainless on an angled handle works just as well if not better for planishing.
rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
plastic mallets are very inexpensive, I use a maple mallet a lot too though, it's heavier and is really good for beating down tuck shrinks
plastic mallets are very inexpensive, I use a maple mallet a lot too though, it's heavier and is really good for beating down tuck shrinks
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
Ok Rock, one more question. Do you make a wooden pattern to help with getting the final shape of the tanks? I was thinking of making a hardwood pattern of the tank as I have seen that in the book "The Racing Motorcycle" by John Bradley
Ok Rock, one more question. Do you make a wooden pattern to help with getting the final shape of the tanks? I was thinking of making a hardwood pattern of the tank as I have seen that in the book "The Racing Motorcycle" by John Bradley
rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
I'd recommend some kind of pattern, it doesn't have to look like the tank and it doesn't have to be hardwood, all a pattern needs to do is give you a reference for the critical lines and points of the tank, some of my patterns are just a center profile with 3 square ribs that slot into the center piece so I can keep things symmetrical, if you're making something with a more complex shape, you can make a pattern from foam, it will help you get the shape right on the pieces you're making... I'd invite you over sometime, but I'm guessing you're probably thousands of miles away
I'd recommend some kind of pattern, it doesn't have to look like the tank and it doesn't have to be hardwood, all a pattern needs to do is give you a reference for the critical lines and points of the tank, some of my patterns are just a center profile with 3 square ribs that slot into the center piece so I can keep things symmetrical, if you're making something with a more complex shape, you can make a pattern from foam, it will help you get the shape right on the pieces you're making... I'd invite you over sometime, but I'm guessing you're probably thousands of miles away
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
I'm was a pretty good gas welder but bit out of practice.
Never got aluminium welding though
Is that you in the video.
It's impressive, lot of experience necessary to make it look that easy.
I was wondering if you have any feeling in the fingers of your left hand, until pliers were holding sheet
I think I'll give it another go, particularly as I can't afford a TIG ;D
zipper421 said:
I'm was a pretty good gas welder but bit out of practice.
Never got aluminium welding though
Is that you in the video.
It's impressive, lot of experience necessary to make it look that easy.
I was wondering if you have any feeling in the fingers of your left hand, until pliers were holding sheet
I think I'll give it another go, particularly as I can't afford a TIG ;D
rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
that's not me in the video, I can gas weld, but after learning it for a few days, I said screw it, my tig is better, sure, if I didn't have a tig, I'd probably give it more of a chance, but when you've got one, it's hard to justify spending time learning something else. the trick I found is getting the aluminum really clean, applying flux correctly, and getting the flame at just the right point where a little change in distance changes heat at the weld. tig solves all those issues
that's not me in the video, I can gas weld, but after learning it for a few days, I said screw it, my tig is better, sure, if I didn't have a tig, I'd probably give it more of a chance, but when you've got one, it's hard to justify spending time learning something else. the trick I found is getting the aluminum really clean, applying flux correctly, and getting the flame at just the right point where a little change in distance changes heat at the weld. tig solves all those issues
rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
that's not him either, it's kent white, www.tinmantech.com
that's not him either, it's kent white, www.tinmantech.com
rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
oh and watch 20 seconds in... brushing flux onto the 3003 .050 aluminum
zipper421 said:
oh and watch 20 seconds in... brushing flux onto the 3003 .050 aluminum
englishwheeler
New Member
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
JohnU,
I feel you've gotten some good advice here. I just thought I might add or ask a couple more things. It appears you're making this tank for a Motard style bike..for racing? I would think you could get by with .063 aluminum on your bike. For my street bike tanks I use .080 with .125 bottoms. Most of those go on V-Twins or parallel twins which experience a lot of vibrations.
If you want to gas weld your tank, I think that's great! I do that with nearly all my stuff. There are some places I can't like when joining the sides to the thick bottom pieces. It's nearly impossible to gas weld .125 to .080...so I TIG that.
I find that the gas weld is softer and is much easier to hammer flat. If it's done right you have to do next to no grinding or filing on it.
Are you going to polish the tank? If so, you might cut thin strips of your parent metal and use them as welding rod, it will help hide the weld lines when polishing. Even 1100 rod can show up in polishing sometimes.
If you TIG it, I like to go over the weld without rod on the inside to smooth it out before planishing it. Really saves time and makes it double strong and protected against any small pinholes.
Lastly, have a ton of fun doing it. I love making tanks. It can be a royal pain sometimes, but it's always fun to see them done! Good luck!
JohnU,
I feel you've gotten some good advice here. I just thought I might add or ask a couple more things. It appears you're making this tank for a Motard style bike..for racing? I would think you could get by with .063 aluminum on your bike. For my street bike tanks I use .080 with .125 bottoms. Most of those go on V-Twins or parallel twins which experience a lot of vibrations.
If you want to gas weld your tank, I think that's great! I do that with nearly all my stuff. There are some places I can't like when joining the sides to the thick bottom pieces. It's nearly impossible to gas weld .125 to .080...so I TIG that.
I find that the gas weld is softer and is much easier to hammer flat. If it's done right you have to do next to no grinding or filing on it.
Are you going to polish the tank? If so, you might cut thin strips of your parent metal and use them as welding rod, it will help hide the weld lines when polishing. Even 1100 rod can show up in polishing sometimes.
If you TIG it, I like to go over the weld without rod on the inside to smooth it out before planishing it. Really saves time and makes it double strong and protected against any small pinholes.
Lastly, have a ton of fun doing it. I love making tanks. It can be a royal pain sometimes, but it's always fun to see them done! Good luck!
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
Englishwheeler, thanks for the info I appreciate all the info I can get. I will not be polishing the tank, I don't pretend that it will be built to poishing standards, I can only hope for that level. Tank will be on a bike that is mostly used for trackdays (500cc two stroke). I will be making the tail section first which is obviuosly not as critical, of course that will be after much practice with the gas torch!
Englishwheeler, thanks for the info I appreciate all the info I can get. I will not be polishing the tank, I don't pretend that it will be built to poishing standards, I can only hope for that level. Tank will be on a bike that is mostly used for trackdays (500cc two stroke). I will be making the tail section first which is obviuosly not as critical, of course that will be after much practice with the gas torch!
rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
cool, looking good, something that might help when you get it done is to sand it with a long block, otherwise you may end up with some contours that the sheet won't want to follow without looking funny, you'll know what I mean when you start.
cool, looking good, something that might help when you get it done is to sand it with a long block, otherwise you may end up with some contours that the sheet won't want to follow without looking funny, you'll know what I mean when you start.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
I know it's been a while but I have started working on the bike again. Almost got the wooden pattern made for the seat and I found a supplier for ally - McMaster Carr (thanks english wheeler) and bought enough to make the seat unit. As I've never made anything like this before I was wondering where I should join some of the pieces. In the pics below I marked some lines on my styro foam model of where I was thinking of making the joins. However I was thinking that maybe I should make the top surface all from one big piece (no join where my arrows meet at the top of the hump. Any thoughts or advice?
I know it's been a while but I have started working on the bike again. Almost got the wooden pattern made for the seat and I found a supplier for ally - McMaster Carr (thanks english wheeler) and bought enough to make the seat unit. As I've never made anything like this before I was wondering where I should join some of the pieces. In the pics below I marked some lines on my styro foam model of where I was thinking of making the joins. However I was thinking that maybe I should make the top surface all from one big piece (no join where my arrows meet at the top of the hump. Any thoughts or advice?
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rockcitycafe
I make things.
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
depends on how ambitious you're feeling, I'd probably opt for more seams than bends, just because of the shape overall... how I'd approach it is to form the sides, with the radius, get them matching the buck well, then hot glue them in place, then wrap some butcher paper over the top and hot glue it in place, then rub the seams with 120 grit sandpaper, it'll cut the paper exactly matching your sides, then carefully cut it out with a scroll saw, or something that can really accurately hold that line, then tack, straighten, and finish weld front and back
also, onlinemetals.com is less than mcmaster... btw which alloy did you wind up using?
depends on how ambitious you're feeling, I'd probably opt for more seams than bends, just because of the shape overall... how I'd approach it is to form the sides, with the radius, get them matching the buck well, then hot glue them in place, then wrap some butcher paper over the top and hot glue it in place, then rub the seams with 120 grit sandpaper, it'll cut the paper exactly matching your sides, then carefully cut it out with a scroll saw, or something that can really accurately hold that line, then tack, straighten, and finish weld front and back
also, onlinemetals.com is less than mcmaster... btw which alloy did you wind up using?
Re: 3003 Ally For Making Tank?
Thanks. I like your suggestion on the sequence to build the unit and the sand paper trick!
Online metals unit cost is less but the shipping is expensive. I am going with 3003, going to get some 1/16th 1100 rod today. I decided to use 0.080" for the seat but I still plan on using 0.053 for the tank. I've been practicing my gas welding and it I am getting my touch back. I need to get some decent glasses though I can barely see through mine.
Thanks. I like your suggestion on the sequence to build the unit and the sand paper trick!
Online metals unit cost is less but the shipping is expensive. I am going with 3003, going to get some 1/16th 1100 rod today. I decided to use 0.080" for the seat but I still plan on using 0.053 for the tank. I've been practicing my gas welding and it I am getting my touch back. I need to get some decent glasses though I can barely see through mine.
