72 Honda CB450 Oil Change, synthetec ?

W

wtskm

Active Member
Hi all,

I'm a newb to all of this so please excuse this basic question. I want to dump the oil on my CB450 that I bought 3 weeks ago. I know it's got 20W50 in it right now.
What would you guys recomend using ? And is there a specific bike oil that I should buy or is regular auto oil the same ?
Ans should I go synthetic.

thanks
Stan
 
Stan,

Opinions on oil are like a$$es - everyone has one. Some guys run oil designed for trucks and swear by it, some use auto oil and think it's fine. Some of us will only use Motorcycle oil.

To put it into perspective, almost all oils available today are streets ahead of oils available back in 1972 and all would work, but some are more suitable that others. I wouldn't bother with synthetic except perhaps for a race bike. For the street there's not much of a cost benefit. ie there's a cost but not a lot of benefit.

There's a few decent test on oil out there and a bunch of manufacturers "tests" and whole bunch of personal stories and attestations. Anecdotal evidence, unfortunately is not very scientific and tends to be just another strong opinion not backed by any scientific facts.

Auto oils typically have friction modifiers etc which are great for a car, but less suitable for a bike with a wet clutch. Some additives cause clutch slip and some oils make gear changing heavy and clunky and others break down when they get hot. I like Honda Oils. They come in two varieties and two weights. I use the heavier one is summer and the lighter one when it's colder. I use the version without Molybdenum to avoid clutch slip.

There are lots of great M/C oils and some auto oils work, but I play safe. That's just me and I'm sure you'll read a slew of differing opinions.

If teh oil in it is causing problem, drain it. If it's fine, keep it until teh next change in the spring.
 
I would personally only run synthetic in an engine that was new or freshly rebuilt. Not saying synthetic oil is bad, it just cleans a lot better than Dino oil and you may loosen up some sludge that can clog oil passages and it can clean areas at the gaskets that may start to leak oil.

Chose a motor oil that is designed for motorcycles. They are more designed for the clutches, transmissions, and cooling.


These are my opinions and Im sure you will get different.
 
Thanks guys, yeah no problems. I read some posts about Shell Rotella which I found odd ?

I kind of just want to so something before seasons end.
My garage is full of stuff since our house is under reno and I'm afraid to takle anythiing else for lack of work space. The previous owner said it should be due, also will need a new battery as I killed it the other night and forgot to turn the petcock to on. It's fine after a recharge but have been told not to trust it so a new battery is in the future (it's 3 years old anyhow)

I hate being a newb !!!!!!!! :p
 
I misread your original post. I read that the oil in your CB was bought 3 weeks ago and of course what you meant was that you bought the bike 3 weeks ago. Duh.

I would never use Rotella which is high detergent for trucks because they need it, but it' s probably quite OK in a newer motor.

Maybe that's the answer to the flushing oil post - use rotella to flush all the sediment out of an old motor.
 
So doing some reading and seeign that Rotella T is favored ? Hmmmm, I was in the States yesterday and I should have grabbed a gallon :-[
 
WTKSM - NO, NO, NO. It's not designed for our old bikes. That's the problem with the internet. Too many opinions presented as facts.

There are many good oils available and that doesn't happen to be one that I'd choose. But it probably doesn't make much difference in a low performance motor that does very few miles. It will handle the loads and needs to be changed regularly
 
Ok, after more research on a Honda Twins forum, the majority swear by Rotella.

Someone please explain why Rotella is not designed. I've read all of the arguments re: car oil and clutch slip.
 
wtskm said:
Ok, after more research on a Honda Twins forum, the majority swear by Rotella.

Someone please explain why Rotella is not designed. I've read all of the arguments re: car oil and clutch slip.
Click to expand...

Ok that's only my 2 cent.

Spoke with THR which are racing those cb450's and they told me to put what ever kind of oil with the right weight (10W40 or 20W50) as peer the manual. BUT YOU NEED TO CHANGE IT REALLY OFTEN to avoid oil starving problem.
 
Vince Lupo actually called the folks at Rotella - but I don't want to try and repeat what was in that thread. If you do a search on here for "Rotella" or a google search for "Vince Lupo Rotella" you can find it.

And JRK was using it in a bike of his but changed it out for something else......can't remember why or when he talked about it.

Just something to search for.......
 
I just got a hold of the previous owner and it matches what you just said.
For the last 23000 miles he's been using Castrol GTX 20W50 with a change every 1K. So even regular auto oil works.

thanks all for your help.
 
I'm a little late on the reply to this oil subject but I have worked in the motorcycle business for a long time and have a nice little cb 450 cafe bike. I would suggest not using a synthetic oil in this motor. This motor uses a spin filter. Syn oil is very slippery and allows the sludge and paticals to be filtered be caught in the filter. Being this is a centrifical filter and the oil is slippery it would not help the filter in cleaning. Unless you have the race aftermarket replacable filter installed I think I would stay with a mineral based oil and change it every 1500 to 2000 miles. I have tried using 20-50 oil in mine but have found that the heavy duty clutch springs I have installed will make the motor creep forward until it is warmed up for about 5 minutes. In the cold weather it is much worse. Rotella is good oil. I prefer using Spectro or a good motorcycle oil in mine. Motorcycle oil has more zinc in it. Zinc helps dampen the gears in the transmission and prevent wear. This is a wet sump motor and the oil cools and lubricates not only the motor but the transmission also. That is why motorcycle oil is more costly. The additive package is different then that of cars. A car, only has to lubricate the motor and does not go through a transmission. Cheap insurance for the amount of fun given. Happy Motoring!
 
My first oil change on my CJ360, I used 10w-30 and the engine ran fine. After taking the advice to try 20w-50 I was very pleased. I can't really put my finger on it, but the engine just sounded better and felt happier.
 
I can't remember who said it (either Bateman Racing or GroupW) but they recommended putting in a weight heavier than what's in the manual. Supposedly the thicker oil "stuck" better to the top end so the start up wear is reduced. However, they also pointed out that there is a reduction in power as well (not a big deal on something like a cb750, but these guys race 160's and 175's).


All boils down to what Teazer says - there's a lot of opinions on oil. As long as you don't put in the wrong stuff and change it when necessary it should be all good.
 
The biggest thing with Rotella up to recently was that everyone was saying its ok to use in a bike but there is no definative answer out there, shell wouldn't comment, now recently shell has paid to have the tests done to certify the oil for motorcycle use, newer bottles of Rotella 15w-40 (white bottle) and 5w-40 (blue bottle), will have "JASO DH-2" and "JASO MA" which are the standard certifications for motorcycle oils. Whether Rotella is a "good" oil is a long winded technical arguement. But the one thing it has going for it is its inexpensive and easy to find. And i think thats why its so popular. Personally I like the stuff and have used it in a few different things with success.

The only problems with "automotive oils" are these

1. Bikes use a wet clutch and friction modifiers found in most modern automotive oils CAN cause clutch problems.

2. Automotive oils may not offer enough protection to certain components due to reduced ZDDP. (Some will argue there are newer better antiwear additives that take its place)
 
i would say no syn oil in it.. i run 10-40 motorcycle suzuki oil. and havent had a problem... i think syn is only for the newer bikes just my 2cents.. i maybe wrong tho.
 
The shell rotella is actually really good in the 450, because of the torsionbar valvetrain. The top end in a 450 eats the hell out of regular oil. I figure if the oil is good enough for the turbo in a diesel dumptruck, its good enough for my bike engine. Our engines dont spin near as fast or get near as hot as those turbos.


Dont use synthetics in these bikes though unless youve switched out the friction plates in your clutch for something that will handle synth. The OEM and most aftermarket clutch plates wont handle the synthetic, and your clutch will slip like crazy. I think theres 2 companies that make synth friendly clutch plates for the 450, but i cant remember which ones off the top of my head.
 
Ah jesus, not one of these threads... I've a good mind to start a definitive oil thread after this. Heres an explanation of oil:

Regular mineral, or 'semi-synthetic', oil is fine for your engines. Because of its irregular, natural molecular sizes it is more prone to breaking down over time due to heat and mechanical interaction.

Synthetic oil is pupose made stuff with quite uniform molecular sizing, and will withstand prolonged stressful conditions better than mineral oil. It is also fine at extended use in normal vehicles.

Both oils are fine for your motorcycle, but there is one other thing to consider: the additive package.

Additive packages are designed to help keep your engine clean and buffer against wear. This is through the use of industrial detergent agents and buffering compounds such as molybdenum and zinc derivitives like ZDDP. The accepted level of ZDDP for engines is between 0.1 and 0.2% of the oil volume. You don't want more than 0.2% because you will start fouling plugs and producing unwanted buildup of oil breakdown material in your engine. The role of buffering compounds is important, as they come into play as a 'last line' of defence against metal-to-metal contact in your engine. This is especially important on older, air-cooled machinery and engines under high stress conditions (eg racing).

Earlier oil specifications had higher levels of buffering compounds such as ZDDP, but modern oils have less due to concern it will interfere with catalytic converters. The general guide is the API ratings - a rating of API-SG will contain high anti-wear additives. An SJ will contain less, and SM is current designation and will have less again. Therefore I'd advise to run SG or SH API rating oil in your vehicle.

In conclusion, change your oil regularly and make sure it is of the proper viscosity and designation. This will ensure your engine will perform and last as best it can.

Cheers - boingk

PS: Mineral or synthetic is up to you - it really doesn't make a difference, and I have yet to encounter one case of a clutch that has been destroyed by synthetic or additive-enchanced oil. Generally the wrecked clutch is down to poor or downright negligent maintenance and/or improper or extreme use - this may include poor adjustment, frequent hard use (eg dragstrip), resting of fingers/hand on the lever, or improper shift technique. Either way, if using a mineral oil makes you feel better then thats fine... just make sure you change whatever oil you use often enough.
 
Lots of good stuff.

The thing about synthetic oil is that it is not suitable for a new or rebuildt engine until after it is run in /bedded in.

Bikes run on synthetic from new do not typically perform as well as those run initially on Dino oil. Syntheics are so good at lubricating that teh surfaces do not get a chance to wear to match each other.

After that it's up to you. And Rotella is not one oil, it's the name for a Range of oils.
 
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