At my wits end with cb550 clutch

[work9to5]

Hey, guys havnt been on in a while. Having some issues with a cb550 clutch on a build that's basically finished. Hoping one of you could point out something I've missed possibly to figure out what's going on. Bike is a 74' cb500, rebuilt/over bored top end, gsxr front end, did a neat little seat/cowl with a Harley fender and has all the little bobs and whistles to make it charge, run and preform better that I could afford. Now only if I could ride her!

Gonna list all the symptoms below, but basically she's acting as if clutch is always pulled in.

-bike starts with no hesitation
-when in neutral kick has no resistance with clutch pulled in or not but springs back
-when bike is in gear and off and I try to use the kicker back tire moves
-bike rolls freely when off and in gear
-bike rolls freely when off and in neutral
-new springs
-new friction plates
-I've opened the clutch 2 times now to adjust screws that hold the spring plate (I feel like the plate is where I'm having issues. Should I tighten them all the way? Back em out all the way? 6lbs of pressure? )
-I've tried rolling her back and forth while in gear, on and while switching gears...no result
-I switched a clutch basket from a completely working cb550 I have...nothing
-clutch actuator is working as it's supposed to
-have adjust the heck out of the cable and side screw with no positive results
-made sure the spacer in the back of the basket is there, the shim is on right, metal plates all facing same way with edges toward engine
-when I have the bike on and switch to 1st or 2end I can feel see the chain take up some tension but throttle gives no result as if stuck in neutral

I should also mention that when I first had her all done and started her for the first time with the chain off. That the sprocket spun as if running correctly through all gears. But that the kicker wasn't working at that time. That's when I went back in to look at the kicker spring after I reassembled and put the chain on is when I started having problems.

Any insight appreciated. Bad pic of her below

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[julian.allard66]

Have you got the steel plates lined up correctly, they have cut outs that either need to be all in line with each other or 120 degrees from each other, you need a manual to know which one is correct for your bike

 

[work9to5]

Yes, I believe they are all lined up correctly. They would not have fit in the clutch basket without teeth of plates being in line. I do have a manual.


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[julian.allard66]

They will fit in with the steel plates in the wrong position, I know because I've done it and had a clutch that wouldn't grip until I realigned them.

 

[work9to5]

Ok, I'm planning on going back in there tomorrow morning. Will inspect the plates an post a bunch of photos as to how I've put it back together. Thanks for the tip, had no idea they could not be aligned even if they fit in the basket snugly.


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[work9to5]

Ok guys, I'm gonna go into my clutch and post allot of pics of the process. If anyone see's anything amiss plmk. I have done this on other bikes with positive results, have no idea what's going wrong with this time though. Hopefully this will help others that are changing a clutch for the first time.

1. Drain oil, remove right foot peg, remove kicker pedal, remove oil dip stick, (note: removing brake pedal helps, to get at bolts I just leave it on because I've got Allen head bolts and they're easy to get at)

I move my drain bowl over a bit to catch oil from removal of cover after I get the top bolts removed. Save all your bolts, be mindful of what came from where. I like to replace the same bolt with the same hole on assembly. I stick my finger in the oil dip hole and tap the bottom of the cover with a rubber mallet gently to remove. Also if tension is taken off the clutch cable or if it is removed it helps a bit in removing cover.

that's the inside just after removing cover.

this is the inside of cover everything looks normal to me so far....




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[julian.allard66]

With the cover off does the clutch slip, or does it work how it should?

 

[work9to5]

Be mindful when removing cover. Do it gently, it's possible that if you do it right you can reuse the gasket but I always have one on hand.
2. Remove clutch spring plate by removing 4 screws.

just after plate was removed

(new) springs removed

pic of the basket from the top (springs removed, snap ring still in place).

I remove the snap ring with needle nose like so cause I'm cheap and don't have snap ring pliers. After I got snap ring off I pushed on the screw mounts, does seem like backing plate had some room to move.

basket removed easily. Put your thumbs on the center "rotor" in pic use your fingers on back of basket to gently push. Do not shimmy it back and forth!....


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[work9to5]

Just saw your comment Julian. It works as it should as far as I can tell. When I pressed on plate disks separated momentarily. Also the kick spins the basket when in gear.


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[work9to5]

I think I can see what's possibly happening. I don't think the plate may have been depressing enough to squeeze the plates enough. There seems to be excessive travel in the basket maybe. Taking apart basket next.


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[work9to5]

3. After basket is removed put clutch face down with the area that was on outside of motor down on bench. Remove outter basket (it's the back piece).

note- this think sits in the back of the basket

look for any damage, but keep it together to keep it neat.

back view of plates and side view as they sat in basket. Seems pretty normal to me. Metal plates are in their notches so far.


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[cxman]

that does not look right the top plate does not look big enough and you dont show the washer under the snap ring?

can you watch this and check out the top plate and washer maybe i just didnt see it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS97OkyZENU

 

[work9to5]

All plates removed. Everything's seems clean and normal

metal plates where all sitting in their groves. Fabric disks seem good. Found one possible issue. One of the metal plates was faced the wrong way in basket. The

these teeth have a "edged" side and a smooth side. "Edged" side of all plates should face engine I think.

Note- I've cleaned this clutch previously and it is a low miles engine. If you are doing this for the first time. Clean everything as you go. These metal plates ussually do not look this good. Your basket will be covered in oil-dirt and crud possibly. Use a clean rag that doesn't lint on everything.

I'm gonna take a break at this point an wait for any possible comments before putting back together. Plus it's 103 here in Las Vegas and I need a minute to cool down. Any comments welcome. Also scootmoto on YouTube has a great vid post on this process if you want to see it in real time. Thanks


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[work9to5]

Cx I noticed this. Have also seen the scootmoto vids. The washer under the ring was there

I just didn't mention it, thanks for pointing it out. Also I believe the plate is the right size. Scoot was working on a 78' in their vids. This is a 74'. There are two differences in the clutches as far as I can tell. One that plate is slightly smaller and two, the fabric disks/basket are slightly different. On the 78' the last fabric disk ends are slightly bigger for a notch in the basket. On this 74' and on 75's I can confirm as well there is no larger notch in the end of the basket. I can only confirm this because I have a 74' 75' and 78' in the garage currently.


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[cxman]

what does the clutch pack thickness measure and what does the book call for?

 

[work9to5]

Ok, back to the reassembly. Everything is cleaned an wiped down again.

stacking plates on cage back. "Edges" of metal plates facing me. Spring plate going in back of cage.

plates sit in it like so

I kinda hold it in both hands and gently slide one into the other, counting the steps (plates) I pass till I know it's all the way in. Then gently remove the cage making sure to not disturb disks to check all the disks are on all the way. Then slide the cage back on.

that looks normal and good to me, thoughts?

Next, pick up the basket with both hands keeping it compressed. I applied light wd to the clutch crank and groves and slid it on. Making sure that basket stays together with both hands. Note- have bike in gear so clutch crank won't spin.

back on. Next shim ring and the snap ring.

snap ring has to be pushed into place. Not just placed on crank. I next check that the basket as a whole is pushed on fully with no wiggle. Next slip four springs onto posts. At this point because I forget it all the time. I put the metal ring backing back on the kicker

I've forgotten it before and even though I'm sure it doesn't do much I feel better with it on there. If you can't find it look on the inside of your cover. I "lost one" for 3 days there. Next the backing plate.

screws are turned in two turns at this point. Just to hold the plate where it is. Note the round barbell thing sticking out of the plate. Don't lose that! I stick it in there with lots of grease.

Ok so HERE, is where I need clarification. So I'm going to tighten them mid way. So the springs are compressed but there is a tiny amount of wiggle left in the plate area. While keeping in mind these are steel screws going into aluminum. What kind of pressure do you want in these springs? A tiny amount of wiggle left in the plates? A lot?


I know the basics of how this clutch works. I am in no way an expert. If someone could chime in here I'd think it would help my mind get wrapped around how this whole thing works and what's gone wrong.


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[work9to5]

Cx just saw ur reply. Pulled it just to check. They're new plates thought they would be in spec for sure so didn't check them. They're at the limit! Book says .3 mm they're all .26 ugh. Checked the plates on the the other basket I tried and they're also at the limit ugh feel like killing a certain ebayer right now.


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[work9to5]

Can anyone confirm this limit of .3? I feel it awful strange that "new" plates are coming in .26 and the ones on another bike with 5,000miles on it are coming in with exactly the same number. Even though it right in front of me in black and white.


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[Tim]

I can't comment on the clutch plate wear tolerances, but for the clutch spring bolts, there should be a torque spec in the manual.

On my XS650 you tighten them down all the way - probably 6 pounds of torque which is pretty common for a 6mm bolt into aluminum. I think they actually bottom out.

Do you have the CB550 manual? I uploaded a PDF copy to the site a long long long time ago when I had a CB550.

http://www.dotheton.com/downloads/CB500-550_Manual.pdf

http://www.dotheton.com/downloads/CB550_Parts.pdf

 

[julian.allard66]

Tighten the springs up as much as you can, there should be a torque setting in your manual, but they need to be tight so that the pressure plate is pushed hard against the clutch plates.