Big Arse Project on Puny Yamaha Bike!

Tim said:
My understanding of welding, and it is VERY limited by the way, is that welded material is actually stronger than the original material. So a welded joint, done right, is stronger than a single piece of metal.
I've been lurking for awhile here, but finally registered to address this.
The weld will very likely be stronger than the original material, but all this means it that the original material will fail instead of the weld failing. Depending on the change in geometry of the parts being welded together, the new part can actually be weaker than the old part.
I speak as a mechanical engineer barely a year out of school, hopefully someone with more experience can chime in.
 
Ok, as a Material Science and Engineering grad, lemme try and straighten this out a little. In a metal such as these handle bars (I'm assuming low carbon steel) the only reason a weld would be stronger would be more material i.e. a weld bead that is thicker than the material. If there was a failure of the material post welding, it will be in the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ). This is the area adjacent to the weld where the material properties change due to the heating of the metal. All of the area that changes color next to the weld is the HAZ. The negative effects of the HAZ can be treated by annealing the entire piece post welding. This is typically done in a heat treating oven and IIRC is refered to as normalizing the material.

The reasson that welded handle bars will fail later down the road is that the HAZ is softer and will flex more during operation. This will propogate any microcracks in the material that are the result of the rearangement of the matrix of the material and the inclusion of impurities during welding. Eventually, the microcracks will grow and the material will fail. Usually under load---like cornering or hitting a bump.

Most of the clubmans that I have seen ARE welded. I don't know if they are normalized post welding, I doubt they are. How do they get away with that? Well, I think they use thicker material than stock bars. Typically, the materials used in bikes like ours are comprimise between cost, weight, and durability. The load on stock roadbike bars is not that high so factor in as light as possible and crappy steel and...well you get the point. They serve the purpose they were designed for but try to push the envelope and...

Hope that makes sense. ;D
 
350CAFE said:
Ok, as a Material Science and Engineering grad, lemme try and straighten this out a little. In a metal such as these handle bars (I'm assuming low carbon steel) the only reason a weld would be stronger would be more material i.e. a weld bead that is thicker than the material. If there was a failure of the material post welding, it will be in the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ). This is the area adjacent to the weld where the material properties change due to the heating of the metal. All of the area that changes color next to the weld is the HAZ. The negative effects of the HAZ can be treated by annealing the entire piece post welding. This is typically done in a heat treating oven and IIRC is refered to as normalizing the material.

The reasson that welded handle bars will fail later down the road is that the HAZ is softer and will flex more during operation. This will propogate any microcracks in the material that are the result of the rearangement of the matrix of the material and the inclusion of impurities during welding. Eventually, the microcracks will grow and the material will fail. Usually under load---like cornering or hitting a bump.

Most of the clubmans that I have seen ARE welded. I don't know if they are normalized post welding, I doubt they are. How do they get away with that? Well, I think they use thicker material than stock bars. Typically, the materials used in bikes like ours are comprimise between cost, weight, and durability. The load on stock roadbike bars is not that high so factor in as light as possible and crappy steel and...well you get the point. They serve the purpose they were designed for but try to push the envelope and...

Hope that makes sense. ;D

Of course it makes sense! It's science! :D
(nice writeup)

Only one thing... the welded clubmans you're used to seeing are 3 pieces of metal welded together... the problem with the welding here is that they're talking about welding a BENT piece of metal at the bend (see pics of the bad bends on said bars above). Which I think is pointless.

Long and short... Gordon you should toss those bars and start over. I suggest spending the extra cash on some actual clubmans or some clipons.
 
Ease, 350CAFE, maskednegator, chrisf, Tim: Thanks for the great information. I'll try to strengthen and use them temporarily. Will get hold of another bar and try to get them welded nicely. If it still comes out sloppy, I'll get a clip-ons!

Ok, the parts are arriving faster than expected. We have got almost all the body parts that need to be replaced.

Depending on the availability, we may pick up an a fibre mudguard. Have not yet decided which speedometer to go for.

Let the parts out of the bag.
boxpartsxv8.jpg


Boxes opened up.
allparts1lo9.jpg


Thunderbird Headlight
headlightwz3.jpg


Yamaha tank and side-panel logos
logosov8.jpg


Unpainted side panels
sidepanelseu8.jpg


Indicators : These are a smaller version of the original Yamaha indicators
indicatorseg7.jpg
 
Woo Hoo! Progress!

You planning on doing that sweet flat-tracker seat like in the pic of the RZ?
 
You planning on doing that sweet flat-tracker seat like in the pic of the RZ?

I'm in two minds. Most probably I'll be making the same dome type cowl I'd done for the Enfield Cafe Racer.

126779.jpg


hey Gordon,where did you get that headlight and how much was it?

Got it for around $15 in India itself. It comes as stock equipment on some Royal Enfield models. And is produced by a company called Minda.
 
Pics: Tank Done!

The tank is done! Was such a tedious job because of certain complications.

Mounted it onto the bike with the previously shown clubman bars to have a feel of it. The seat cannot be quite low, since the height of the bike is low AND the rearsets would be too high and be very uncomfortable.

Without the clubman
59416696wz0.jpg


With the clubman
81228841qv9.jpg


Sorry for poor phone pics. Can't carry the digital camera because of rains.
 
Okay at last I got my digital camera out and took some proper clear shots. The rearset will be positioned where the rear footpeg is presently.

bgvg8.jpg


I've noticed that unlike the CB's and RD's there is only one brake actuator, that too on the inside. Which is why I have the following issues:
- can't have a proper direct linkage to the inside brake actuator
- then there is the kick pedal that comes in the way
-I can't even have a direct linkage to the brake hub, since there isn't any spring that could pull it back into place. The spring is on the brake actuator.

brakedy5.jpg


I'm going to try to mount this kick pedal and check if it can clear the brake.

kickyi2.jpg
 
Just tried mounting the other kick lever. Doesn't fit anddd still doesn't clear the brake pedal.

SOMEBODYYYYY GIVE SOME IDEASSS!!!!
 
Gordon it's a bit hard to see what you are actually talking about. Is it possible for you to flip the lever on the rear brake drum so that the rod comes from the top to your rearset or is this what you mean by one actuator and therefor cant do this. hope that makes sense
 
By brake actuator I meant this:
brakeactbk7.jpg


Oh sorry, there is only one on all bikes :-[ Now there is the silencer in the way for me to connect the new brake pedal to it.

Is it possible for you to flip the lever on the rear brake drum

You mean this one, right? I'll check with my mechanic whether its possible. I sort of thought of this, but didn't know what direction the cam will have to move. If its inverted, what direction will it move?! I mean when its in normal position, the pedal pulls it forward. When inverted, does it have to be pushed backwards?!

directionru1.jpg


I've seen some guys doing it on this forum.
 
Thats the one I was talking about. I dont know what direction the lever moves although i'm guessing it will be pulled forward rather than pushed back.
Have a look at benjies little 350 there are some good before and after photos on there. Should give you some good ideas.
www.benjiescaferacer.com
 
The direction the cam rotates shouldn't matter. It's just a cam inside that separates the brake pads at the one end, pressing them against the hub. Lots and lots of folks run them 'inverted' and still pulling to the front. You can't push these things - the rod is too flimsy and you'd lose all your braking power.
 
Will invert it tomm!

I'll do that tomorrow itself. I'll try inverting it and connecting it directly to the kick lever (pedal). I'm still a little stumped on how the brake lever would clear the kick lever. Will update you guys tomm for sure.
 
Brake pedal

valvesprung said:
Bastard stole my pics
:) You had all the pics I required to explain myself.....lol......

I checked with my mechanic who said that its possible to invert the lever. There will not be any issues and will still work in the forward direction.

Got another brake pedal and a cam that can give enough clearance to connect directly to the brake cam lever on the hub.
brakepb3.jpg


The brake pedal is quite large and will be in the way of the kick lever.
brakekickxf1.jpg


So this is what I intend or plan to do. Thinking of buying another kick lever cam that I can weld to the existing one. This will give it more clearance from the brake pedal. Almost an inch actually.
kickcamfx6.jpg


Got a BSA style tail lamp.
bsang5.jpg
 
Updates.

Picked the following parts in the past couple of days:
- 18" Wheels with spokes
- 2.75x18 and 3.00x18 Dunlop Tires
- Wiring Kit
- 12v Flasher and Regulator Rectifier
- Another kick lever that clears the silencer and rearsets well
- Fibre front mudguard
- Toolbox
- Grips
- A newer Yamaha Switchgear with better controls
- Clip on handlebars

Here are the clip on bars:
poshnq1.jpg
 
Mounted the clip ons onto the bike! Positioning is just perfect. They are quite tight, and have figured out a way so that they never have a chance to slip. The pics:

clip1ys9.jpg


clip2sa3.jpg


clip3in1.jpg


Wondering what to paint the bike. Initially we thought of white. May change our mind to bright red! Here is a small list of the color scheme we have in mind:

Black
- Swingarm
- Chassis
- Triple Trees
- Seat Base?!
- Side Panel Detail
- Headlight bracket


Dark Gray OR Black
- Engine

Silver
- Forks
- Hubs
- Carb


Red/White/Silver
- Tank
- Side Panels


Strip Paint
- Rear Shocks
- Fuel Cap


This is vague photoshop image. Don't pay too much attention to the details and color. Just a crazy thought. Color scheme suggestions are welcome.
rxredyb8.jpg
 
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