Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350
- Thread starter Korsch_RS
- Start date
foundation982
Been Around the Block
looking good! kinda reminds extremely similar to what im building
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Fix said:
I will let you know. We should get a group together for a ride sometime!
foundation982 said:
Thanks, great minds think alike!
I got a whole big box of the last few fasteners I need, a bunch of electrical connectors, new carb jets, and pod filters, and a new gold chain!
More soon when I get the last few things in Phase 1 buttoned up!
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
So close to being done!
The bikes doesn't look any different, so no new pictures, but I got a fair bit done this weekend. Finished up 95% of the wiring (booooring, makes it hard to work on it for more than an hour at a time), installed new jets in my carbs, installed my new carb boots, and also installed the stock coils. Only things left to wire are the RR (3 wires), the Ignition switch (2 wires), and the main lead to the battery (1 wire, but I need to find a 10AWG inline fuse holder). Almost there!
One problem i ran into is the seat latch, I took it apart to paint it, didn't take any pictures (I thought "yeah i can figure out how to put it back together", oops), and now I can't figure out where the spring goes to make it work right. Can anybody take a few pictures of the front and back of their stock CB350 seat latch? pretty pretty please?
Thanks, and hopefully a running video soon!
So close to being done!
The bikes doesn't look any different, so no new pictures, but I got a fair bit done this weekend. Finished up 95% of the wiring (booooring, makes it hard to work on it for more than an hour at a time), installed new jets in my carbs, installed my new carb boots, and also installed the stock coils. Only things left to wire are the RR (3 wires), the Ignition switch (2 wires), and the main lead to the battery (1 wire, but I need to find a 10AWG inline fuse holder). Almost there!
One problem i ran into is the seat latch, I took it apart to paint it, didn't take any pictures (I thought "yeah i can figure out how to put it back together", oops), and now I can't figure out where the spring goes to make it work right. Can anybody take a few pictures of the front and back of their stock CB350 seat latch? pretty pretty please?
Thanks, and hopefully a running video soon!
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
McMaster-Carr, great place to get just about anything you need. It's a little expensive, but everything ships next day
Here's the sleeving
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=hfijoy
Also, they have one of the best product searches around, so it's usually pretty easy to find what you need. They're geared more towards industrial supply, so sometimes they don't have automotive related products. I use them all the time for school or work projects. Feels like I get at least a box a week from them, everything from tiny set screws to raw materials.
McMaster-Carr, great place to get just about anything you need. It's a little expensive, but everything ships next day
Here's the sleeving
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=hfijoy
Also, they have one of the best product searches around, so it's usually pretty easy to find what you need. They're geared more towards industrial supply, so sometimes they don't have automotive related products. I use them all the time for school or work projects. Feels like I get at least a box a week from them, everything from tiny set screws to raw materials.
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
Still running into problems. Tried the PAMCO ignition, and still no luck getting her to run. Tried new spark plugs and starting ether too, and the best I got was some coughing from both cylinders.
I checked my coils and they're 5OHM coils. The PAMCO site says they'll work with stock coils, but it also says coil primary resistance should be 2.5 to 4.5 Ohms. I checked the spark and it looked weak, so I ordered myself some nice new Dyna 3OHM coils and plug wires. In the meantime I re-installed the points. Rechecked the spark and it looks stronger, but I still couldn't get it to do anything more than cough a bit.
Also going to take my carbs back apart and double check the jets are all clean, as the right cylinder plug was wet when i removed it, but the left was dry. If the Dyna's still don't work I'll try putting the 105 jets back in (I put 115's in as that seemed to be best option for pod filters and open exhaust). All the other jets are stock. Also on my list is to improve the engine grounding, as the with the painted frame the one little grounding cable to the head that I have might not be enough, although I still get continuity with it disconnected, so I thought the engine might have worn off some paint when it was installed, hence only one grounding wire.
Any other options I should try?
Still running into problems. Tried the PAMCO ignition, and still no luck getting her to run. Tried new spark plugs and starting ether too, and the best I got was some coughing from both cylinders.
I checked my coils and they're 5OHM coils. The PAMCO site says they'll work with stock coils, but it also says coil primary resistance should be 2.5 to 4.5 Ohms. I checked the spark and it looked weak, so I ordered myself some nice new Dyna 3OHM coils and plug wires. In the meantime I re-installed the points. Rechecked the spark and it looks stronger, but I still couldn't get it to do anything more than cough a bit.
Also going to take my carbs back apart and double check the jets are all clean, as the right cylinder plug was wet when i removed it, but the left was dry. If the Dyna's still don't work I'll try putting the 105 jets back in (I put 115's in as that seemed to be best option for pod filters and open exhaust). All the other jets are stock. Also on my list is to improve the engine grounding, as the with the painted frame the one little grounding cable to the head that I have might not be enough, although I still get continuity with it disconnected, so I thought the engine might have worn off some paint when it was installed, hence only one grounding wire.
Any other options I should try?
livingdead
New Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
where did you get that shifter? I am doing the same build
where did you get that shifter? I am doing the same build
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
Well I haven't completely fallen off the face of the earth, just got busy with moving to a new house (with a bigger garage!!), had to build some workbenches and shelves, and then had to fix a few things on my car, but I'm back to work on the bike!
Got my new Dyna Coils and started working on some new brackets to mount them in basically the stock location.
Here they are mounted in the stock location, but this sets them too high and wide and they hit the stock tank when I test fitted it (the brackets are currently held in with zip-ties), I flipped them over and they clear the tank fine, so that it what I'll have to do.
I'm finally taking my motorcycle Basic Rider class this weekend, so next week I'll be licensed and hopefully can take it out for a spin!
More soon!
Well I haven't completely fallen off the face of the earth, just got busy with moving to a new house (with a bigger garage!!), had to build some workbenches and shelves, and then had to fix a few things on my car, but I'm back to work on the bike!
Got my new Dyna Coils and started working on some new brackets to mount them in basically the stock location.
Here they are mounted in the stock location, but this sets them too high and wide and they hit the stock tank when I test fitted it (the brackets are currently held in with zip-ties), I flipped them over and they clear the tank fine, so that it what I'll have to do.
I'm finally taking my motorcycle Basic Rider class this weekend, so next week I'll be licensed and hopefully can take it out for a spin!
More soon!
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
Alright, I still can't get this thing started. I can usually get it to cough into life on starting fluid for a second or two, and then it dies. Otherwise the best I got was about 30sec of running on 1 cylinder, but I had to keep my hand on the throttle, and even then it died after a bit. Frustrating part is it started and ran great when i took everything apart, and all i did was swap jets. I figured I might have to fiddle with it to get it running great again, but never thought it wouldn't start at all. Any ideas?
Things I've done:
Updated all the ignition with PAMCO, Dyna 3OHM coils, brand new plugs, and new wires. Checked it and getting good spark. I've also fiddled with the ignition timing moving it both forwards and backwards. This helped and it will pretty much always fire on starter fluid now, but still doesn't run.
Tried 115 jets in it (for pods and open exhaust), but I've since gone back to 105's
Readjusted the idle mixture screw to factory settings (1.25 turns out)
What am I missing?
Thanks for any help...
Alright, I still can't get this thing started. I can usually get it to cough into life on starting fluid for a second or two, and then it dies. Otherwise the best I got was about 30sec of running on 1 cylinder, but I had to keep my hand on the throttle, and even then it died after a bit. Frustrating part is it started and ran great when i took everything apart, and all i did was swap jets. I figured I might have to fiddle with it to get it running great again, but never thought it wouldn't start at all. Any ideas?
Things I've done:
Updated all the ignition with PAMCO, Dyna 3OHM coils, brand new plugs, and new wires. Checked it and getting good spark. I've also fiddled with the ignition timing moving it both forwards and backwards. This helped and it will pretty much always fire on starter fluid now, but still doesn't run.
Tried 115 jets in it (for pods and open exhaust), but I've since gone back to 105's
Readjusted the idle mixture screw to factory settings (1.25 turns out)
What am I missing?
Thanks for any help...
axeugene27
Over 1,000 Posts
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Can't get it started!
The main jet should have little to do with starting/ idling. I'd look at your pilot jet. Did you have it running before the pod filters and open exhaust or did you have them installed and had it running fine? If the latter I would go through your wiring again. confucius says ..if it ran before I did this, and not after, it is this that caused it to not run.
The main jet should have little to do with starting/ idling. I'd look at your pilot jet. Did you have it running before the pod filters and open exhaust or did you have them installed and had it running fine? If the latter I would go through your wiring again. confucius says ..if it ran before I did this, and not after, it is this that caused it to not run.
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 COMPLETE!
IT'S RUNNING!!!!
It finally cooled down around here (I think we set a record for most days over 90* in a row, but my backyard thermometer usually read over 100-110F... highest I saw was 114F! not good working temp) this past sunday so I tried my last ditch effort to get this running on stock carbs. I completely covered the carb inlets with my hands and then had my girlfriend crank it over on the electric starter, let it pull fuel from the bowls for a couple revs then took my hands off and she fired right up! took a little throttle work to get it idling at first, and if I turned the choke on it would die again, but now it's starting and running like a champ! My best guess is there was something stuck in the idle jet on the left carb (I had gotten it to run a tiny bit on the right) that I was unable to dislodge with my repeated cleanings, and the forceful engine vacuum was able to suck it out. I guess with all the wonky fuel, idle, and spark timing settings it didn't have enough power from the right cylinder to run without the left firing.
Stuck my timing light on and it was waaaay off, but that's fixed now. When I was fiddling trying to get the thing to start, I advanced the timing a bit and it became easier to start, but I had to advance it way farther than that even. Now it's sitting spot on at idle and goes to full advance by ~4000rpm. That screwed my idle all up again so had to fiddle with the idle screws to bring it down from 3500rpm to 1000-1200, but it sits pretty solid now. On cold start today it was idling a little high, so I put the choke half on and that calmed it down until it warmed up. I tidied up a few things and then took it up and down my block making sure everything was working.
Crappy cell phone pic in the dark
It still has some rough edges before it's really everyday rideable. I'm keeping a close eye on the battery to make sure my charging circuit is working correctly, and I have some cleaning up to do in the handlebar area. Also it's stupid loud with no mufflers, but with the 115 main jets it pulled fine as far as I revved it (only 7000-ish). I've got my mandrel bends for a custom 2-1 exhaust in, and a nice stainless muffler from DCC comes in Wednesday, but I'm out of town this weekend so who knows when I'll get to it. I've also got Mikuni VM30's that will go on before too much longer, but I need to get a throttle cable and new throttle tube (coming in Thursday) before those can go on. I'll wait until after the exhaust is done so I only have to tune them once.
After my quick dash around the block my wrists were already a little sore with the clubman bars, so I'm considering going to a drag bar, but i'll roll with these for a little while and see if I get used to them.
Anyway, I can proudly say Phase 1 is Complete!!
Let phase 1.5 begin
IT'S RUNNING!!!!
It finally cooled down around here (I think we set a record for most days over 90* in a row, but my backyard thermometer usually read over 100-110F... highest I saw was 114F! not good working temp) this past sunday so I tried my last ditch effort to get this running on stock carbs. I completely covered the carb inlets with my hands and then had my girlfriend crank it over on the electric starter, let it pull fuel from the bowls for a couple revs then took my hands off and she fired right up! took a little throttle work to get it idling at first, and if I turned the choke on it would die again, but now it's starting and running like a champ! My best guess is there was something stuck in the idle jet on the left carb (I had gotten it to run a tiny bit on the right) that I was unable to dislodge with my repeated cleanings, and the forceful engine vacuum was able to suck it out. I guess with all the wonky fuel, idle, and spark timing settings it didn't have enough power from the right cylinder to run without the left firing.
Stuck my timing light on and it was waaaay off, but that's fixed now. When I was fiddling trying to get the thing to start, I advanced the timing a bit and it became easier to start, but I had to advance it way farther than that even. Now it's sitting spot on at idle and goes to full advance by ~4000rpm. That screwed my idle all up again so had to fiddle with the idle screws to bring it down from 3500rpm to 1000-1200, but it sits pretty solid now. On cold start today it was idling a little high, so I put the choke half on and that calmed it down until it warmed up. I tidied up a few things and then took it up and down my block making sure everything was working.
Crappy cell phone pic in the dark
It still has some rough edges before it's really everyday rideable. I'm keeping a close eye on the battery to make sure my charging circuit is working correctly, and I have some cleaning up to do in the handlebar area. Also it's stupid loud with no mufflers, but with the 115 main jets it pulled fine as far as I revved it (only 7000-ish). I've got my mandrel bends for a custom 2-1 exhaust in, and a nice stainless muffler from DCC comes in Wednesday, but I'm out of town this weekend so who knows when I'll get to it. I've also got Mikuni VM30's that will go on before too much longer, but I need to get a throttle cable and new throttle tube (coming in Thursday) before those can go on. I'll wait until after the exhaust is done so I only have to tune them once.
After my quick dash around the block my wrists were already a little sore with the clubman bars, so I'm considering going to a drag bar, but i'll roll with these for a little while and see if I get used to them.
Anyway, I can proudly say Phase 1 is Complete!!
Let phase 1.5 begin
T Rush
New Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
got a set of coils something like those that I've been looking at various mounting ideas on my project `71 CL350...did you just weld the fabricated mounts to the frame?
if you are just learning to ride I think its mandatory to watch Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist 2"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0965045072/ref=asc_df_09650450722089932?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=0965045072&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=124377416626734793&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=
sometimes you can find parts of it on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWH_QiXw5n4&feature
along with super important things like counter steering, throttle control, bad survival reflexes, physics of how a bike actually works, etc,,, it will show you how to relax your arms/wrists and hold your body with using your knees on the tank so you aren't trying to support your weight with hands when you need those to control the bike instead
eh, i'll post this other video too(tho it might not relate to any issue you have posted about) it still could help you or someone new to riding with counter-steering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgUOOwnZcDU&feature
got a set of coils something like those that I've been looking at various mounting ideas on my project `71 CL350...did you just weld the fabricated mounts to the frame?
Korsch_RS said:
Korsch_RS said:
if you are just learning to ride I think its mandatory to watch Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist 2"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0965045072/ref=asc_df_09650450722089932?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=0965045072&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=124377416626734793&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=
sometimes you can find parts of it on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWH_QiXw5n4&feature
along with super important things like counter steering, throttle control, bad survival reflexes, physics of how a bike actually works, etc,,, it will show you how to relax your arms/wrists and hold your body with using your knees on the tank so you aren't trying to support your weight with hands when you need those to control the bike instead
eh, i'll post this other video too(tho it might not relate to any issue you have posted about) it still could help you or someone new to riding with counter-steering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgUOOwnZcDU&feature
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Phase 1 almost complete!
Nope, the brackets are a strip of 1" x 0.125" steel with some tabs welded on, then just shaped with a hand grinder and bolted to the stock coil bolt holes. I'm thinking about modifying them though as I can't install the ignition switch in that spot anymore, so I'm trying to find a new spot.
Thanks for the tips on Twist of the Wrist! I'll definitely have to check that out
T Rush said:
Nope, the brackets are a strip of 1" x 0.125" steel with some tabs welded on, then just shaped with a hand grinder and bolted to the stock coil bolt holes. I'm thinking about modifying them though as I can't install the ignition switch in that spot anymore, so I'm trying to find a new spot.
Thanks for the tips on Twist of the Wrist! I'll definitely have to check that out
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - It's Running! Phase 1 complete
Well I've put 30 miles on it so far, and put my first tank of gas in it. I've uncovered a couple issues and solved a few others:
My ground cable came off my not-stock battery, fixed with a zip-tie and also insulated and secured the positive lead with electrical tape (forgot to take pictures). This was causing the bike to miss as it tried to run the coils off the regulator without any sort of energy storage device (like a capacitor commonly found in no-battery bikes).
It misses a bit over roughly 75% throttle and above 8000rpm, so I'm guessing that with the open pipes the AFR is off at high throttle openings and high RPMS. Not gonna bother tuning it at all, as it runs fine in the mid range and it's getting a new exhaust and then Mikuni VM30's within the next couple weeks (have all the parts, just need to do the work).
Open exhausts are extremely obnoxious. So I bought this!
There is a slight leak from the front forks. Not going to worry about this too much either as I have a set of CB550 forks I picked up last weekend that will go on this winter. I'll just keep my eye on the fork oil for the rest of summer/fall.
And the most concerning issue of all, the breather tube is spitting out a fair amount of oil. I'm going to put a catch can on the bike for the time being, but I'm guessing it's going to need a rebuild this winter. So... if I'm already taking the cases apart, and putting new rings in, i'm thinking I might need to build the engine a bit while I'm in there. Is it worth my time at all? or should I just get stock replacement rings and call it a day?
Anyway, that's it for now. Out of town this weekend so exhaust work will have to start next week.
More soon!
Well I've put 30 miles on it so far, and put my first tank of gas in it. I've uncovered a couple issues and solved a few others:
My ground cable came off my not-stock battery, fixed with a zip-tie and also insulated and secured the positive lead with electrical tape (forgot to take pictures). This was causing the bike to miss as it tried to run the coils off the regulator without any sort of energy storage device (like a capacitor commonly found in no-battery bikes).
It misses a bit over roughly 75% throttle and above 8000rpm, so I'm guessing that with the open pipes the AFR is off at high throttle openings and high RPMS. Not gonna bother tuning it at all, as it runs fine in the mid range and it's getting a new exhaust and then Mikuni VM30's within the next couple weeks (have all the parts, just need to do the work).
Open exhausts are extremely obnoxious. So I bought this!
There is a slight leak from the front forks. Not going to worry about this too much either as I have a set of CB550 forks I picked up last weekend that will go on this winter. I'll just keep my eye on the fork oil for the rest of summer/fall.
And the most concerning issue of all, the breather tube is spitting out a fair amount of oil. I'm going to put a catch can on the bike for the time being, but I'm guessing it's going to need a rebuild this winter. So... if I'm already taking the cases apart, and putting new rings in, i'm thinking I might need to build the engine a bit while I'm in there. Is it worth my time at all? or should I just get stock replacement rings and call it a day?
Anyway, that's it for now. Out of town this weekend so exhaust work will have to start next week.
More soon!
Korsch_RS
Active Member
Re: Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Exhaust work
Well the weekend wasn't entirely un-productive. I was in Northern MI with my girlfriend visiting her family, and her dad's hobby is building circle track race cars, muscle cars, and a host of other high-horsepower projects. I don't have a bandsaw, so while I was there we used his bandsaw to make a 2 into 1 collector for my new exhaust. Using the bandsaw made it quite a bit easier to do the long cuts to make the collector merge, instead of trying to do those with my hand grinder. I still ended up making the cuts a little off, so the collector is a little shallower than the 15 degrees I originally planned. We fixed this by putting the welded piece on the flat sander to get the inlets straight which worked well. Forgot to take a pic of that though.
Started by making these templates for cut angles, and also the outline of the final collector.
Then made my 15deg cuts with some straight attached
Then the long cut for the merge
and welded! I must've not cleaned the metal very well, because there were a few spots that turned out really porous (or my TIG skills are just rusty). I'll have to grind those out and re-weld, and also smooth out the inside of the welds.
Also, Thursday last week I whipped up a temporary fix for my oil spitting problem, an extremely light, cheap, and compact aluminum catch can!!
It actually fits inside the hole between the engine, cam tensioner, frame, and carb bowls/overflow drains perfectly. The black tube runs into the back of the can from the head breather, and then the clear tube sits just inside and loops down to drain under the bike. The clear lets met see when the can fills up and starts to spit oil again, and the black silicone seals it all up. Cheap, easy, and works great so far. Rode it to work on friday and had 0 oil on my rear wheel or pants.
I also borrowed a compression tester from a friend at work, so I'll use that soon and see how my compression is. I'm thinking if I've got good compression, then the rings must be good and the spitting is probably due to old valve guides. If the compression is low it must be the rings. Either way it's gonna get freshened up this winter. I've decided against a full high-power build. For the 3-4000 I'd spend on making 45-ish hp I can buy something much newer and more powerful, so it'll just get rings, hone, cam chain/slipper, valve guides, a good cleaning, and anything else I find while inside.
More soon!
Well the weekend wasn't entirely un-productive. I was in Northern MI with my girlfriend visiting her family, and her dad's hobby is building circle track race cars, muscle cars, and a host of other high-horsepower projects. I don't have a bandsaw, so while I was there we used his bandsaw to make a 2 into 1 collector for my new exhaust. Using the bandsaw made it quite a bit easier to do the long cuts to make the collector merge, instead of trying to do those with my hand grinder. I still ended up making the cuts a little off, so the collector is a little shallower than the 15 degrees I originally planned. We fixed this by putting the welded piece on the flat sander to get the inlets straight which worked well. Forgot to take a pic of that though.
Started by making these templates for cut angles, and also the outline of the final collector.
Then made my 15deg cuts with some straight attached
Then the long cut for the merge
and welded! I must've not cleaned the metal very well, because there were a few spots that turned out really porous (or my TIG skills are just rusty). I'll have to grind those out and re-weld, and also smooth out the inside of the welds.
Also, Thursday last week I whipped up a temporary fix for my oil spitting problem, an extremely light, cheap, and compact aluminum catch can!!
It actually fits inside the hole between the engine, cam tensioner, frame, and carb bowls/overflow drains perfectly. The black tube runs into the back of the can from the head breather, and then the clear tube sits just inside and loops down to drain under the bike. The clear lets met see when the can fills up and starts to spit oil again, and the black silicone seals it all up. Cheap, easy, and works great so far. Rode it to work on friday and had 0 oil on my rear wheel or pants.
I also borrowed a compression tester from a friend at work, so I'll use that soon and see how my compression is. I'm thinking if I've got good compression, then the rings must be good and the spitting is probably due to old valve guides. If the compression is low it must be the rings. Either way it's gonna get freshened up this winter. I've decided against a full high-power build. For the 3-4000 I'd spend on making 45-ish hp I can buy something much newer and more powerful, so it'll just get rings, hone, cam chain/slipper, valve guides, a good cleaning, and anything else I find while inside.
More soon!
broncoboy79
Been Around the Block
Black and Gold Cafe - 71 CB350 - Exhaust work
Catch can was a pretty nifty idea. Should've used a beer can though. It'd look cooler. Ha
Catch can was a pretty nifty idea. Should've used a beer can though. It'd look cooler. Ha
