Cafe snobs

[Dannomite]

This is a bit of a rant and I'm posting it here because no one I know around me will know what I'm taking about or give a shit. You guys will at least know what I'm talking about even if you don't agree with me.

No matter what you do for fun, there are always going to be snobs who scoff at what ever they don't see as being proper. I get it and am a bit of a beer snob myself (whole other topic). But, what has really been getting under my skin lately is cafe racer snobs who look down on any cafe racer that isn't a "true cafe racer" like a Triumph, Norton, BSA or combination of all three. No matter what has been done to a Japanese bike, it will never be a cafe racer in their eyes. This is what puzzles me and makes me shake my head.

From my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but cafe racers originated in Great Britain and the whole idea was to take a stock motorcycle and strip anything off that didn't need to be there and tune the bike with the pursuit of speed and handling in mind followed by appearance. It appears to me that GP racers of the era were the main inspiration for their creations. Being that most of these guys were teenagers or at least young men without much money, they had to do all their mods on a budget and piece other bike parts together to get what they wanted. It was about making something out of nothing and I don't think that any of them would have given a shit what type of bike was used as long as it worked and could do the ton. Triumphs, Norton and BSA are just what they had available to them. I bet if you could send back a early 1970's Honda CB750 to that era, they would all shit their pants and be eager to get their hands on one.

All this shit talk about a "true cafe racer" being a certain brand is just garbage in my mind. The true spirit of the cafe racer is lost when one fixates on the badge. The guy that can afford to build a Triton today isn't anymore of a cafe racer that some poor schmuck (me) with a rusty Honda and the know how to turn a wrench and modify his ride.

 

[SONICJK]

Where are you getting shit?

 

[Drewski]

We've been through this whole thing a dozen times here at DTT. Most that have been around for awhile are probably bored with the discussion, but you're new here so, rant on!

The bottom line here is, build what you want. Forget labels... make it safe... and make it "yours".

You'll probably find a few here who like it and a few who won't!

 

[Dannomite]

Haven't heard to much in person other than a few times when discussing the topic with some strangers who start up a conversation when I'm by my bike. Nothing major. The real shit talking comes from other forums I've visited while trying to gather information.

 

[VonYinzer]

There's very little shit talking that happens here. At least in a mean spirited way. The members who've been here awhile generally step in and attempt to bring folks back to reality.

Build what you want, how you want. If its safe and well thought out than pretty much nobody here will give you heat.

That said...

Expect this thread to turn into a pissing match. Always does when someone starts one along these lines.

 

[Bellicose]

The real shit talking comes from other forums

There's ya problem right there man haha.

 

[Dannomite]

There's ya problem right there man haha.

That's why I landed here! This place seems relatively civil and my intention isn't to start a pissing match. Just thinking out load, if you will.

 

[kopcicle]

Expect this thread to turn into a pissing match. Always does when someone starts one along these lines.

or not ...

Just come here with an open mind , a thick skin , and a willingness to do your homework . Be it "google foo" or actual dedicated text just do it .

Would you rather have me say "way cool" or take you to task for a potential engineering abortifact ?

The kind of crap you will encounter here is rarely egocentric , never brand specific and largely constructive contributions .

With that said if you look for a fight here you'll probably find it . If you piss in someone's Wheaties expect them to make you eat it . Although at times callous and unfeeling the membership here can also be antagonistic , irrational , acerbic , confrontational and abrupt . Deal with it

The one thing I can honestly point out in this membership's favor is they put up with me . How they tolerate me is their individual boggle . Why they tolerate me is easy . I teach what I learn . I contribute . I'm also an easy target for grumpy old man jokes ...

If you feel you needed to get something off your chest fine . Now that we're done with that . Welcome to the membership . Read , learn , share , teach , eat , sleep , ride , dream , live motorcycles and forget all the other assholes ...

~kop

 

[NortonGuy]

From my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but cafe racers originated in Great Britain and the whole idea was to take a stock motorcycle and strip anything off that didn't need to be there and tune the bike with the pursuit of speed and handling in mind followed by appearance.

I might be the ultimate snob, as I don't think there is actually such a thing as a motorcycle that is a "cafe racer", my definition of Cafe Racer is a HUMAN who rides a motorcycle fast between two points for the fun of it. Some of them might modify the bikes for more performance and some might not.

That said, with the availability of used sport-bikes from the 90s popping up for sale for around $1000, there is no reason at all for someone interested in riding fast to waste their time or money on older machinery is there? In the last few months I could have bought a late 80s GSXR750 and an early 90s ZX7-R for less than a thousand bucks.

As far as vintage bikes go, there are certainly a few legitimate reasons to own one, but you won't find any of those reasons driving 99.9% of those pursuing vintage bikes now. The current real Cafe Racers are the kids running around on more modern sport-bikes, the ones that are plastering themselves on truck grills and bridge abutments in the news all summer long. Those parading around on vintage bikes are 99.9% simply taking part in a fashion movement, although their egos will not let them admit it, or they simply have that little self-knowledge.

I have put this up before, but here it is again, a photo of the 59 Club's bikes lined up around 1961:

Notice how there are no "cafe racers" by the definition of the current fashion trend using the name "cafe racer" etc.. Mostly stock bikes, some of which were the GSXRs of their day, that kids are riding around and having fun on.

The fashion movement that is the Neo Cafe Racer movement started around 1965, when manufacturers like Dunstall, followed by Dresda, Tickle and Kennedy started selling cheap racing Look-a-like parts that everyone and their brother could buy for a few bucks and bolt onto old POS bikes, exactly like Dime Shitty Cycles and others are doing right now for later old POS bikes.

Before the Neo Cafe-Racer movement began, the only old "cafe" parts laying around were actual parts discarded from old GP racing bikes. If you wanted a bike that looked like a Norton Manx during the 40s, 50s or early 60s, then you had to actually find discarded REAL racing parts.

For a while in the late 60s, British bikes with mods from Dunstall or Dresda were actually competitive in real racing, but none of them were after 1968 when the Yamaha and other racing and superbikes came out. After the late 60s anyone pursuing the aesthetics of the first 4-stroke GP machinery was truly into nothing more than fashion.

This is why everyone knocking themselves out to emulate a life that was never theirs looks ridiculous to me, and why the only guys I have respect for as Cafe Racers are those who are on newer sport machinery, those left limping around from pre-1965, or those who are REALLY trying to preserve the way that sport or racing motorcycles and riders actually were in the early 60s and back, and that would be riding around on machinery as shown in the photo of the 59 club, mostly standard period machinery.

The rest are just hipsters, posers and fashion models.

 

[Hoofhearted]

It always tickles me how some people think that a cafe racer HAS to be British or its not the real deal. Norton Guy makes a good point that Britain was not infested with cafes in the early 60s. What tends to be overlooked is the fact that Britain was recovering from a war that nearly bankrupted the country. A lot of those kids in the 59 Club barely had two pennies to rub together.

Even a simple purchase of something like a leather jacket was offered with a small down payment and monthly payments. Money wasn't too plentiful. When Dunstall started offering his Norton it was only 35 Stg. over the list price for a standard Norton.

For those who believe that ONLY Brit bikes qualify as cafes check out an ad in The Motorcycle, 23 June 1966. Cafe goodies for Yamahas offered by a British company.

But cafes did exist. Maybe not in the quantities as rose tinted glasses tend to show. And maybe not as blitzy and polished as the show pieces of today. But back then they were used not brought out to a "Mods vs. Rockers" posefest. Once you were outside "built up areas" there was no speed limit.

Some had all the goodies as in the model on the right. Or some could be like the Ajay on the right. Upside down bars and fake leopard skin seat cover had to suffice.

I was able to pick up an '58 Manx engine and stick it in my Norton.

Cafes are NOT strictly British. But Brits make some pretty good candidates.

 

[Scruffy]

Building your own is building your own. If YOU like what you are building, who cares what the next guy over thinks... ALL the shiny bits, fancy handlebars, fender swaps, etc don't hide or change the fact that you took a mediocre machine and made it suit your riding style, body type, whatever. Doesn't matter what name is on the tank, old bikes are at best mediocre compared to modern machinery. Just as the SOHC CB750 could hand a p-twin its ass back in the day, a modern middle weight is going to wipe the floor with the old CB now.

One of my bikes went from factory Scrambler, to dirt track racer, to "cafe" and back to a TT styled machine. All before I had it. When I got it I tossed the rotten "period correct" tail section, bent "factory original period correct" handlebar AND the rotten "factory original period correct" seat in the trash. Where they belonged. Grabbed up the rule books from a couple vintage racing groups, started following the allowed upgrades/modifications and safety specs. Have a long way to go, but the easy to put back on headlight, taillight and license plate lets me have a street legal race bike -OR- a race legal street bike once the "fluff" is removed. Built a Honda into the bike my pair of 1964 T120c Bonnevilles were supposed to be (gave away the Triumphs years ago, good riddance).

Have another one that is becoming a somewhat popular bike to "cafe" out... or turn into a Scrambler. So mine has a full rear fender, semi-rigid saddlebags and 15" rise apehangers. It's paid for, it's comfortable, it's almost back together.

I'm probably "THE" bike snob. Indian went out of business in 1953. Harley Davidson went out of business in 1964 (last year of the kick only 6v big twin) but their last good bike was built in 1948 (when the UL and VL flatheads were killed off). I don't like unit construction British bikes. Truly despise electric start only, CDI ignitions, fuel injection and liquid cooling (even though the Scott 2 stroke was liquid cooled in the 1920s)... oh, also loathe 2 strokes, crotch rockets, ATVs and dirt bikes... But, I'm not going to tell someone else they can't have any of those or that their vision for their bike is totally fucked up.

Cafe out your rusty crusty whatever you have, as long as you enjoy the labor and the end product, who gives a shit?

 

[crazypj]

I'm probably something of a 'Cafe Snob' but it's more the way the term is bounced around for any old crap
Pretty much any twin cylinder bike works as do most manufacturers racing in 1950's/60's
I treat CB360's like a variation of 500 Triumph, they are actually similar size and power output plus both can have top end problems when beat on
I really HATE the 'back end fell off' look that's in style, particularly when that's the only 'modification' done, stock seat with everything behind it removed looks totally stupid

Even a CBX6 can be turned into a 'cafe' if done properly, looks like an overgrown RC166 but it isn't cheap to do it right
http://www.motorsportretro.com/2009/08/honda-rc166/

http://www.cbxclub.com/reger.html

The DOHC would look pretty good as RC181's
http://www.classicracer.com/articles/2012-03/honda-rc181-replica

 

[WeberKid]

I just build what is cheap, available, and interesting to me. I never started with a vision when I started mine, and don't know what category it falls into now that it's nearing completion. but I don't really care, either.

 

[oldskool]

At least for me, "Cafe Racer" is a mentality not so much a particular bike or brand.

 

[bradj]

I just ask the real cafe racer guys to meet my little bike at a stop light and will see in real time what bike deserves the term racer

 

[oldskool]

I just ask the real cafe racer guys to meet my little bike at a stop light and will see in real time what bike deserves the term racer

I know thats right,lol

 

[Rockers CT]

This is exactly why I dont build Caffs anymore.. Just motorcycles that run better and faster than when they left the factory..

 

[DrJ]

There are basically 2 ways to approach getting into cafe racers.

1. Literally: build a period correct bike that some Rocker would've ridden in the 50s-60s. Requires lots of money, even if you build it yourself.

2. Spiritually: find any cheap old bike, make it run well and give it the cafe flavour using your interpretation and imagination. Still requires money but not as much.

Most DTT members fit into the latter method.

 

[Rich Ard]

I drink as much coffee as any 59 club member ever did. I'll call my motorcycle a seahorse if I so choose and my twitchy eye keeps people from poking fun.

 

[RoadRash]

I take what I like and can afford (which normally means next to NOTHING!), and build it, myself into something I like. To those that like it: Thanks. To those that don't: Screw you. I didn't build it for YOU.