Case bearing fun!

N

Nitori

New Member
You guys are the best at answering these sorts of questions, so I'm back again! ;D

I need to put together a thread about this build I'm working on (eventually) but I have a quick question about one of my case bearings.

6202Z bearings are NLA through Honda and hard to find otherwise. As luck would have it, I realized I'm quite local to All Balls Racing. They set me up with one of their 6202-2RS rubber sealed bearings and told me that picking the rubber seals out would be no big deal- it's an internal case bearing in a blind mount with plenty of oil supply.

I pull the 6020Z today and have an "aha" moment as to what that Z means: It's metal sealed on the blind side:
L4VfJkZh.jpg

(Ignore the grime, I got it soda blasted with bearings in place because they were cooked critters anyways.)

Here's where it mounts- the right hand blind bearing hole:
iu1xWZdh.jpg


Now, I already picked out the new 6202's rubber seals and chucked them... (probably a dipshit move on my part but what are you gonna do) so my question is if a regular 6202 bearing can be run "naked" inside of that race with no problems, or if that metal blind side seal needs to be there. Part of me says they wouldn't put a specific type of bearing in there for no good reason, but then again I can't really see why it would make a difference...

Any thoughts?
 
I would press them in. The metal back is likely to keep oil from flowing through, but i don't see a problem and no chance pressure builds that would push on the bearing.
 
I can't for the life of me see why there would be an inner shield. I too would put it in.
 
On second thoughts the shield is probably there to ensure the oil coming out of the galley goes through the shaft and not through the bearing. Best to keep this as it is. You might need to buy another bearing if you can't get the seal back on one side.
 
I have the same question on that trans. main shaft blind mount bearing which is also a 6202Z and I can see that the last post has answered my question about having the oil pressure build up enough to go through the center of the trans. main shaft rather than divert it through the bearing from both sides.

What engine are you working on ?
 
hillsy said:
On second thoughts the shield is probably there to ensure the oil coming out of the galley goes through the shaft and not through the bearing. Best to keep this as it is. You might need to buy another bearing if you can't get the seal back on one side.
Click to expand...

Makes sense
 
I spent some time digging through various reading materials about bearings and their applications, seems like there's a few possible scenarios...

1- Honda got "Z" bearings for cheap because they used them in something else (likely)
2- It was to simplify installation / prevent contamination if any machining leftovers were in that blind hole (unlikely)
3- Like hillsy said, it was to guide oil (medium likely)

The more I look at it though, that galley is thoroughly inside the shaft and it doesn't seem like any oil could even get behind the bearing.

This one's got me a little stumped. I don't need to assemble the thing tomorrow, though, so I've got time to do a bit more digging.
 
So you haven't told us what engine it is but I'm assuming it's a small bore Honda with vertically split cases? Most older Hondas have dubious oil pressure at the best of times so I'd probably err on the side of caution and run the shield on the bearing. The last thing you want to find out is that leaving that out is going to cause you gearbox to seize due to lack of oiling.
 
hillsy said:
So you haven't told us what engine it is but I'm assuming it's a small bore Honda with vertically split cases? Most older Hondas have dubious oil pressure at the best of times so I'd probably err on the side of caution and run the shield on the bearing. The last thing you want to find out is that leaving that out is going to cause you gearbox to seize due to lack of oiling.
Click to expand...

Yes,please tell us the model/yr. of your Honda;I'm thinking it's a CB125 w/ a two-piece cyl. head.

I have an 81' CB125S myself and I presently have 3) different sets of cases apart that're ready to be cleaned so I can see that area you have w/ the blind bearing.My CB125S is an 81' which is the first yr. for CDi ignition and the crankcases are the exact same part # as the XL185S.The pictures you posted show the little hole/spray nozzle in the left side oil galley behind that blind bearing that feeds the trans. mainshaft And that 6202Z bearing.The XL185 takes that same exact(I checked and they are available from Honda for the XL185S:same bearing) 6202Z bearing,it's crankcases have that same little 'spray nozzle' in the oil galley;these crankcases have the Honda center code #437 cast into them.
I also have a set of newer XR200R cases apart but did some looking up part#'s online for a few different yrs. of XR200R and I found that all the way from the early 80's up to the last year they made the 02' XR200R they had a plain #6202 bearing w/o a steel shield but all the XL185 & CB125S models from 76'-83' have bearing # 6202Z w/ the shield in there.
The difference is in the crankcase left half that the XR200R has(it has the 6 speed trans also)which has the Honda center code '446';those crankcases have a different oil galley output hole in the cases for that bearing which is meant to have oil flowing straight-through that 6202 trans. mainshaft bearing and they never did have a shield on the XR200R.
The CB125S and XL185S have that little center 'spray nozzle' cast into the cases and Honda designed that so it needs a shield behind that bearing to keep it filled better.I imagine(never did see one w/ a clear crankcase to see it in action.. :D but that would be cool)that little 'nozzle' must spray out a powerful funnel shaped stream which has the double function of lubing the trans. mainshaft and that 6202Z bearing.I'd also make sure all the oil galleys in your cases are 'clean as a whistle'.
I'm presently looking for an early XR200/R complete engine bottom -end from 1980-83' just so I have the six speeds.I want to install it into my little 81' CB125S and those early 80's models still have the footpeg threads cast into the bottom of the cases.The early years cases are mostly damaged from the chain popping off the front sprocket though,so it's difficult to find an un-molested set...
 
Derp, totally forgot to mention that somewhat critical piece of info!

It's a '71 CL100 (1 piece head) that I've bored the case on to fit grcamna5's 125cc jug he sold me. 8)

It's a $3.89 bearing, so I'm not opposed to just chalking it up to experience and finding a Z, I'm just frustrated that I can't seem to find a online place to get them that looks reliable, and my local place (all balls) doesn't have them. All the websites I find seem to be thoroughly disorganized and can't tell you the difference between a Z or a ZZ or a 2RS and just sort of throw them all at you willy nilly with copy-pasted descriptions. I can't tell you how many "Z" bearings I've seen advertised with their written description "double shielded" :mad:
 
Nitori said:
Derp, totally forgot to mention that somewhat critical piece of info!

It's a '71 CL100 (1 piece head) that I've bored the case on to fit grcamna5's 125cc jug he sold me. 8)

It's a $3.89 bearing, so I'm not opposed to just chalking it up to experience and finding a Z, I'm just frustrated that I can't seem to find a online place to get them that looks reliable, and my local place (all balls) doesn't have them. All the websites I find seem to be thoroughly disorganized and can't tell you the difference between a Z or a ZZ or a 2RS and just sort of throw them all at you willy nilly with copy-pasted descriptions. I can't tell you how many "Z" bearings I've seen advertised with their written description "double shielded" :mad:
Click to expand...

even if you get a ZZ(steel shields) you could pop one shield out and flush out the grease and use it,or get a Honda bearing;they are available for the XL185S.
I order from a guy on the West coast through Ebay and I like the Nachi Made in Japan bearings he(seller is 'irvineman') sells.I have a question in to him asking about this exact issue w/ the 6202Z.I want to replace mine also.
 
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