CB200 Wheel Offset? I have different size spokes

odin836

Active Member
Hello!

I've got a project thread going on here:
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21150.0


My replacement DID Rims arrived today from Thailand (finally).
So I thought I'd start to look into what it takes to lace the wheel, there seems to be a good article on this here, the comments below the article are also of help.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuilding-a-Spoked-Wheel-for-the-Royal-Enfield-Bu/

However, unfortunately prior to stripping the old spokes from my hub for polishing I failed to take any notice of any possible offset.

The kit I purchased from eBay for my CB200 has two different sized spokes, so I assume this means there is meant to be an offset? OR do the different sized spokes belong to only a particular rim? :eek:
 
There are inside and outside spokes. they have different off sets to account for that. So, just try each inside and out and see where they fit. they should fit in the hub hole and give you the correct angle to the rim without bending them.

can you post pics??
 
odin836 said:
Hello!

I've got a project thread going on here:
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21150.0


My replacement DID Rims arrived today from Thailand (finally).
So I thought I'd start to look into what it takes to lace the wheel, there seems to be a good article on this here, the comments below the article are also of help.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuilding-a-Spoked-Wheel-for-the-Royal-Enfield-Bu/

However, unfortunately prior to stripping the old spokes from my hub for polishing I failed to take any notice of any possible offset.

The kit I purchased from eBay for my CB200 has two different sized spokes, so I assume this means there is meant to be an offset? OR do the different sized spokes belong to only a particular rim? :eek:

Hi, I JUST did the rims for my CB200 the other day. Like you, when I disassembled them, I really didn't measure for any offset ... this was my first time trying to relace rims. They're at the shop right now getting trued so I hope they turn out OK.

I also got the spoke set off of eBay, but I'm pretty sure that they were all the same length. They do have two different bends at the end though. The ones with the slight bend (inner spokes) went in from the outside of the hub towards the inside and the ones with the almost 90 degree bend (outer spokes) went into the hub from the inside towards the outside. I did all of the ones from the "outside in" first, (on both sides) and then went back in and did the ones from the inside out ... I hope that makes sense.

I used the directions on this page for reference: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=368.0

Lacing some of the last spokes was a bit of a challenge. For the last three or four, I had to undo a few surrounding spokes temporarily in order to make some room to swing them into position - I had my rims powdercoated and I was very paranoid about scratching them with the end of a spoke.
 
G'Day Killswitch625,

Whats it costing you to get the RIMS trued if you dont mind me asking?
Is it at your typical motorbike store or a place specialising in Wire Wheels?

The pattern was actually pretty easy, once a friend of mine was able to assist (4 hands) we had both done within the hour.

Cheers for the info, putting in the spokes so the button head faces out first (both sides of the rim) certainly saved many headaches.
 
Truing wheels is actually really easy. Just time consuming. Look for a dial indicator, should be around 40 bucks.
 
I don't use a dial gauge - I just use a Sharpie. Hold that close to the rim as it spins and move it in until it starts to leave marks. Tweak spokes, clean and repeat.

We use a professional wheel truing stand but for years I used whatever was available to hold an axle and let the wheel spin. A good spoke wrench is a must though. If the forks and swingarm are on the frame, flip it on its back and use the chassis as a jig to hold the wheels. Just take your time and adjust a little at a time.
 
+1!!


truing is fun. just remember after you get it true you have to tension everything equally til you get a nice ping on each spoke that resonates with basically the same tone. I just do 1/4 turns on each spoke once around then ping it with a screw driver handle to check tone then repeat til satisfied.


If you can lace the wheel you can true it. I made a truing stand with oak boards and made feelers with metal strapping and bolts that adjust to the rim.


You do also need to be sure that the rims are reasonably round (true top to bottom)
 
odin836 said:
G'Day Killswitch625,

Whats it costing you to get the RIMS trued if you dont mind me asking?
Is it at your typical motorbike store or a place specialising in Wire Wheels?

Oh I don't mind at all. I originally called a bicycle shop and they didn't want to do them. So, I found a motorcycle repair shop close by and took the rims to them. It was pretty expensive because I basically had to pay the shop rate for an hour or so of work. In the end it was around $100 for both rims.

After reading all the info on here, I feel a bit embarrassed that I paid so much. I think the next set I do I'll just try to true them up myself first.
 
I think I will do the same Killswitch625. Whilst my rims are straight (brand new) its going to take considerable effort to ensure they stay that way... The tyres need to be fitted anyway, might get the same motorcycle service shop to do both truing and supply/fitting of tyres.

I should have saved them time already by lacing them.

I put a full series of photos taken whilst lacing the 32 spoke rim here should someone need clear photos of the pattern in future. I hope it helps someone!

http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21150.msg221270#msg221270
 
I pay $45 per wheel to have them laced and trued locally - if you're not really into the DIY part of lacing your rims, take your handful of spokes and your new rims and find the guy who services your local vintage racers (find your local AHRMA or VRRA board and search someone out).
 
Sorry for posting in this old thread. I have a new set of spokes for my 175 and have the same question you had regarding the different length spokes. What did you ever figure out? Thanks.



odin836 said:
Hello!

I've got a project thread going on here:
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=21150.0


My replacement DID Rims arrived today from Thailand (finally).
So I thought I'd start to look into what it takes to lace the wheel, there seems to be a good article on this here, the comments below the article are also of help.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuilding-a-Spoked-Wheel-for-the-Royal-Enfield-Bu/

However, unfortunately prior to stripping the old spokes from my hub for polishing I failed to take any notice of any possible offset.

The kit I purchased from eBay for my CB200 has two different sized spokes, so I assume this means there is meant to be an offset? OR do the different sized spokes belong to only a particular rim? :eek:
 
I'm not positive on this but I don't think any Honda spoked wheel is offset at all. Very few bike wheels are because from a designer's point of view its a lot less expensive to manufacture it using spacers to move the sprocket out than it is to offset a wheel - which is only done to gain clearance.


The two different spokes you have are different in that their ends are bent differently. The longer ones with the steeper bend go through the hub flange from the inside to the outside. They are the last spokes you put in the hub after you have laced the other set of spokes.


Lacing is actually pretty easy if you can count to 4. To start you put a spoke through the flange of the hub (outside to inside, these are the inside spokes) in any hole and then put its nipple end through the hole immediately to the left of the air-valve-hole. Turn the nipple down a couple of turns. Then put your next spoke in the hub; you skip over one blank hole and use the next. Put this spoke through the rim in the 4th hole up from the first one you did. Then follow that pattern all the way around the wheel - every other hole on one side of the hub and every 4th hole on the rim.


Now the truth of the matter is you have to put all of the outside-to-inside spokes through the hub on both sides before you begin because they will become tangled if you don't. Also, the ones that are on the underside of your hub as you lace the first side have to be pointing in the opposite direction of the upperside that you are working on.


OK, with one side done flip the wheel over (carefully) and begin doing the same thing on the opposite side. Here you first take you hub and rotate it so that the spokes you already have in place are pulled to approximately their finished position. Then take one of your remaining inside spokes and hold it to the rim hole on one end and to the hub at the other and see which hub hole it ends at - this is the one you will start with. Same thing as the other side, first spoke goes in the hole immediately the left of the air-valve-hole and then its every other hole in the hub and every 4th hole on the rim.


This second set will be enough spokes to hold the wheel it its rough shape. Now you begin with the outside spokes. These you have to pass across the hub to insert them through the holes so that the little blob at the end of the spoke is on the inside of the flange. Same thing here as with the other spokes, every other hole in the flange, every 4th hole in the rim. Do half, flip the wheel over and do the remaining half in the only holes left in the rim to fill.


If you're lucky you should be able to get one done in about a half hour, add one hour for every two beers drunk while attempting it.


Truing is, as has been noted, not difficult at all. Let me tell you why. All of your spokes are exactly the same length. Your hub is drilled to a true circle centered on the axle. Your rim is round and the holes evenly spaced. What that means is that if you start off by screwing all of the nipples down evenly the wheel will be very close to perfectly true to start with.


So here's what you do. Put the axle through you hub and put it in a stand so the wheel can spin. Starting at the air-valve-hole loosen the first nipple completely and then screw it back down counting turns. Give it 8 turns to start. Move to the next one and do the same thing, 8 turns. Go all around the wheel doing this. When you're done take the wheel off your stand and shake it hard. Put it back in the stand and start again, at the air hole, but now tighten the spoke 1 turn - go all the way around. If this doesn't get them all snug, do it again. Keep doing this until the nipples are just snug, not real tight. They just need to be tight enough that when you pick the wheel up and shake it there is no loosness in it.


Now go to the truing stand (which you can make out of a couple of tables and c-clamps). Set up your dial indicator to first read for out of round, don't concern yourself at all with side wobble yet.


Spin the wheel and find the highest spot. Be careful not to confuse the rim's weld with the circle's high. So when you spin it you may find a little lump in the wheel - ignore it, look for the actual high point. Mark the center of the high point on the wheel using masking tape. Next take the spoke in the center of the high and screw its nipple down 1 turn, the two spokes to each side of it 1 turn as well, then move out two more spokes and turn them both down 1/2 turn. Spin the wheel and check it. After the first two or three attempts start doing it 1/2 turn in the center of the high and 1/4th turn on the 2nd and 3rd spokes out to each side Repeat as necessary to get your runout to less than 0.010".


Then set your indicator up for lateral runout (wobble to the sides). Sit on the side and spin the wheel and find the point where it wobbles as far away from you. Mark it with your tape and then begin by tightening the spoke on your side of the wheel 1/2 turn and loosening the spokes on each side of it by the same amount. Spin and try it again. Repeat as necessary until you have the runout to 0.010" or less.


On Edit: Sorry to have left this last part out. After you get it true take your spoke wrench and as your slowly spin the wheel around give each spoke a tap. You know how it will go; "ping, ping, ping, thump". If you have more than 4 or 5 thumpers go around the entire wheel one time and give each spoke a half a turn. Then try it again. If there are only one or two thumpers left go ahead and tighten them a little bit at a time until they ping like the others. Then you're done. Another thing I should have added is that every now and then during the process take the wheel and give it a good bounce on something that won't hurt it. I bounce them a couple of times on a carpeted floor. All you're doing is shaking wayward parts into place, getting stuck stuff unstuck. It only takes a couple of minutes to get your dial indicator set up again, so its worth doing often. Oh, and if you haven't got a dial indicator just go to E-Bay, there are hundreds of them there. Buy a good used one and make sure you can see all the clamping apparatus that will come with it - don't just buy the dial indicator by itself, get a kit with clamps and bars and stuff. Many come with magnetic bases too, and if you have the ability to make use of one they are great. They can be had in the US dirt cheap because of all the closed down industry and laid off machinists.

And that's about all there is to it. Here is one with its lateral runout true to 0.007" in a homemade stand made out of 2x4's.


IMG_3398.jpg
 
Thanks for the info Kong. I assume then that the longer spokes go to the rear wheel since the hub diameter is smaller?
 
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