CB360 - Monoshock Brat

5 mins at Idle on a 360 = 5 mins of draw on the battery as they do not charge until 3K rpm and up, that could be enough with a headlight on to run the battery below the point it will continue to hold a charge, may have just killed one of the 4 cells as well. The short ride after would not have charged it either, when I have to idle the bike for tuning purp etc. I keep a tender hooked up to keep the battery from being discharged too far.
 
Maritime said:
5 mins at Idle on a 360 = 5 mins of draw on the battery as they do not charge until 3K rpm and up, that could be enough with a headlight on to run the battery below the point it will continue to hold a charge, may have just killed one of the 4 cells as well. The short ride after would not have charged it either, when I have to idle the bike for tuning purp etc. I keep a tender hooked up to keep the battery from being discharged too far.

I believe he's tied the white/yellow wires together at the charging system, so that shouldn't be an issue.
 
Rich Ard said:
I believe he's tied the white/yellow wires together at the charging system, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Ok, I didn't see that, just saw idled a 360 for 5 mins. my CM had a better charging system but stilled killed my first battery from idling while tuning and not charging in between.
 
In almost 45 yrs I've dealt with probably 10~20,000 conventional lead acid batteries but only seen 2 explode.
One, dealer forgot to fill (on XS750), the second, battery was on charge and gassing when laborer tried to load test it, spark caused explosion
It doesn't seem to matter what bike it's on, I've heard of more problems with Li batteries last few years than I've ever heard of with lead acid
Some of the issues may well be owner error but some are just because battery has such specific requirements
Pretty sure that unless your racing at a high level, they are a bad idea for any street bike
You would probably be better off with a small L/A battery and a large capacitor
I don't know enough about electronics but maybe a capacitor, zener diode and transistor could help?
 
Rich Ard said:
I believe he's tied the white/yellow wires together at the charging system, so that shouldn't be an issue.
I have a 1976 CB360. the yellow and white are tied together from the factory.

They don't break even to about 3k RPM either. I try to keep the RPM 5k and above except when stopped. MY battery stays charged then. I had (and will have again) a voltmeter on the bike, and the ignition system alone draws the battery down. Add the headlight, and 5 minutes is enough to completely kill the battery. I added a spearate headlight off switch so I can idle longer. When I work on the bike, I use an external battery so I don't kill the onboard battery.

Even my 91 750 Nighthawk is not charging at an idle, but being a field excited unit, it at least keeps even.
 
Say I ditched the battery and wanted to do a kick only setup. What type of capacitor are you guys recommending?

Would the setup go stator > reg/rec > capacitor > coils

I do want to be able to use my headlight and turn signals so I'm guessing kick only isn't the right setup for that. But I am still curious.
 
I've been looking at caps for battery replacement, need the largest you can find (capacitance wise)
I just picked up two 18,000 microfarad, probably 1/3 of what I need?
Not going to have time to test anything as I've taken on too much before surgery
Something about size of Ballistic battery (made up from a set of 4 smaller caps) around 30v (it will only charge to input voltage)
It will be even lighter than battery but may not be much smaller (maybe even bigger?)
You'll have to kick over a few times to charge it up and must have lights you can switch off
needs to be around 4 amps equivalent
Basically you connect same as a battery, red to +, other terminal to ground
There really isn't much information easily available other than people trying to sell you a cap
I did find this though
http://www.ehow.com/info_8638876_difference-between-batteries-capacitors.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-37000uF-37-000uF-40V-volts-and-50V-surge-Aero-M-Electrolytic-Capacitors-/290774114413?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b37ce06d
 
To hard to do all that kicking just to get the caps charged, then maybe lose the charge if she doesn't start. Convenient for looks, annoying for convenience. I was sitting at a light tonight, idling, glad I had a battery....
 
ynatyhuj.jpg
Really truly thanks for the info everyone.

I'm charging a stock cb360 lead acid battery now so I can test my system and make sure its the ballistic that's bad and not a ghost connection somewhere.

While that is charging I fab'd a bracket to put my voltmeter front and center.
 
I added a neutral indicator light and a flasher indicator light to the voltmeter mount since it looked a little lonely. I'm going to have the voltmeter go directly to the battery through the switch on the right that way before I turn the ignition on I can switch on the display and get a voltage reading. I like switches.
 

Attachments

  • uploadfromtaptalk1367710886430.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1367710886430.jpg
    22.5 KB · Views: 306
  • uploadfromtaptalk1367710905110.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1367710905110.jpg
    42.2 KB · Views: 322
  • uploadfromtaptalk1367710926720.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1367710926720.jpg
    57.6 KB · Views: 341
I've been running that same Ballistic 4-cell for three years now and it has been rock-solid. The battery is utterly inaccessible (the simplest way to access it involves removing the engine from the frame), so being bomb-proof was a priority! However, my bike is kick-only and running a permanent magnet alternator with a solid-state reg/rec; the battery voltage remains pretty constant.

The Ballistic website and literature hammers away that these batteries are very sensitive to charging voltage and can be killed by a single deep cycle. For a bike in perfect tune, that starts at the first touch of the button with minimal auxiliaries and a perfect charging system, this 4-cell could be good starting battery. For the typical street-bike start-up/development purposes, ie., testing, cranking the bike over a bunch, idling/low-rpm with the lights on, testing the charging system, etc., I don't think this battery may be up to the abuse. Running your 4-cell down flat and then pulling it back up with an overnighter on the charger even once might have been the end.

Your battery may be dead dead. But if, like me, you're fairly wedded to the idea of using this particular battery for the size and shape of it alone, you might be able to get away with it once everything else is sorted. Use a larger conventional battery for all your early-stage tuning and testing until you know the bike is starting very reliably/easily, and that the charging system is reliable, consistent, and steady. Once all the gremlins are worked out, switch back to the Ballistic.
 
Thank you Osteoderm! That is exactly what I plan to do. I'm doing all my testing with a stock 360 battery until she's running good and all the wiring is set, then I'll drop in a new 4cell and hit the road.
 
Re: CB360 - Monoshock Brat - FINISHED

Well, after about 8 months of weekends spent tinkering in the workshop I'm ready to call this project done. I've spent the last month (with no updates) wiring, riding, and dialing in the carbs and last little tweaks. She's running great now, pulls hard, and handles nicely.

Thanks to everyone who's offered advice and help along the way I couldn't have done it without your guidance and support. I'm lucky enough to have "Doris" as I named her be the featured bike on Pipeburn today. I turn to their blog for inspiration every day and it's an honor to be featured there. Special thanks to Neevo for coining the term "Nutcracker" way back when hahah.

http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2013/6/17/honda-cb360-doris.html

More photos here...

http://tinyurl.com/lc435tm
 

Attachments

  • doris-002.jpg
    doris-002.jpg
    55.2 KB · Views: 383
  • doris-010.jpg
    doris-010.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 1,788
  • doris-024.jpg
    doris-024.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 328
Fuck yea. Nice bike and that was cool when I saw this because I hadnt even checked the bike of the day today on my blogs and then there doris is. Nice work
 
Back
Top Bottom