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You should be fine on clearance as long as the hoop sits high enough. It really needs to have about 2" of clearance at the front to work. And yes, I think that is a good plan. Just gusset along the edges of the top hoop to the old swingarm and you should be fine. Not a bad idea at all man.
Kiley, after taking a look at how you did Gretta, I may just follow your lead on that swingarm design. I wanted to use the old swingarm and not a new one to try and keep that vintage look. The square swingarms just change the whole look of the bike to a too modern of a look for me. I wanted my design to have a more vintage look like Gretta does. I had my design because I was a little scared to brace in a way that did not transfer the load to the same spot as factory. However you did Gretta with a parallel support and she works fine, hell you even extened (which means more leverage stress!) her! I think my design would work fine but the angle I plan on using is from modern sportbike looks too. Gretta's looks great, vintage, and works! I think that sums it up!
So I am going back to the drawing board and designing a support like yours! Thanks for being my R & D brother! I think it will be almost an exact copy except I am not extending.
Im trying t think of a better way to mount your "hoop" I dont think its a bad idea to try to utilise the old mounts but they were designed to have more of a straight up and down force. If it were me, I would think about chopping the old mounts and welding stronger ones in the same location.
Than again I got this lumbering giant of a bike on my mind.
Im trying t think of a better way to mount your "hoop" I dont think its a bad idea to try to utilise the old mounts but they were designed to have more of a straight up and down force. If it were me, I would think about chopping the old mounts and welding stronger ones in the same location.
Than again I got this lumbering giant of a bike on my mind.
The old mount point I speak of is nothing more than a location! I always intended on removing the old studs and welding onto the swingarm itself in that location! I just refered to it as a location so others could know where I was talking about! You don't have to worry about me doing shotty work to get by, my mottos are "If its worth doing at all, then its worth doing right" and "Do it right the first time and there will be no redo"
Sounds good on the swingarm. I would try to do a mock up of the chain to check for clearance. I think the hoop and the shock mount and a little gusseting should be good. No need to go hog crazy with the gussets. you have to remember this is gonna be a lot lighter than the bike you started with. Did you cut up that what looked like a good cbr frame just for the shock mount? I fyou did I don't think I would have done that. You could have sold it unless its stolen or something. And could have made your own top shock mount. Keep it up.
Sounds good on the swingarm. I would try to do a mock up of the chain to check for clearance. I think the hoop and the shock mount and a little gusseting should be good. No need to go hog crazy with the gussets. you have to remember this is gonna be a lot lighter than the bike you started with. Did you cut up that what looked like a good cbr frame just for the shock mount? I fyou did I don't think I would have done that. You could have sold it unless its stolen or something. And could have made your own top shock mount. Keep it up.
Well CBR frame was good, I am a little crazy! CBR had no title, it was a race bike but became a wounded stable horse that was taking up space! I wanted parts from her, so I am taking what I want and selling the rest. A 15 year old CBR frame isn't worth a warm turd without a title! I desided it was not worth making a nice mount like that for the top when I already had one! I have now redesigned my hoop so no more chain clearance issues for sure! I let Kanticoy be my R & D, so with his proven design, I adapted it to fit Eileen's application! "A wise man learns from his mistakes, and a wiser man learns from others."
I am at a bit of a stand still on the real progress, I don't have my own welder so I have to find time to take it to my buddy's shop (when he has room and time for me to be there) to do my welding/bending! Or take it to the farm with me on the weekend which is three hours away.
The more I think about it, the more I think you'd be better off using an existing mono-shock swingarm. This will not only save you time in regards to fabrication / bracing, but will re-position the shock to be between the tyre and pivot (like I said earlier, the shock placement you have now will foul the carb area).
This one slotted straight into my 450:
It's an FZR250 swingarm and it was EXACTLY the same width at the pivot point.
Just my opinion, but bracing the GS swingarm to accept a monoshock will be a hell of a lot of work. And having the CBR shock "directly" mounted without any form of rising rate linkages will make your rear end VERY stiff (your stripped down GS is going to be a shitload lighter than a fully faired CBR )
I'd be thinking the mid 80's GS550EF's would have a similar size arm that would probably slot right in
Take it or leave it - just my opinion. Whatever way you go, don't hold back on the pics ;D
Thanks for the info hillsy but like I said above, I dont want a box frame swing arm. I know that it will be a ton of work to get my swingarm to accept the mono-shock, but I love working on bikes, thats why I do it, so its not the same as having a ton of work at the office! I really want the vintage look of that swingarm with the modern look of a mono-shock paired on Eileen. Work I am more than willing to do to achive my vision. I have a solution to the shock being too stiff since I eliminated the rising rate linkage. That shock is a fully adjustable nitrogen shock, by dropping all three adjustment points all the way to it's lowest setting, it is almost perfect for the bill! I have researched the specks and applied them to my expectations of load with Eileen, I think I will be fine. As a back-up though there are a couple of other shock options out there that are the same eye-to-eye length as the CBR shock that are not used in rising rate set-ups! I will keep the pics coming as the work goes, stay tuned into the build. I think you will agree that the work put into this swingarm will be well worth it in the end!
I supose you are right about the frame. A warm turd lol. You said you would drop all three adjustment to make the shock softer. I would drop the rebound as it has no effect on the compression. You should be able to adust the sag with the preload adjustment. That should get you in the ballpark. If you cant get in the ballpark with sag I.E. too stiff then you may have to think about another shock. But with that said thats a long time down the road. You'll just have to cross that bridge when you get there. Keep it up.
That's the spirit brother. I built my design using the geometry off of a Ducati, and I did that for the reasons you stated above. It took out a lot of the guess work. I even made it the same length. I also removed the "dogbone" link from mine too for simplicity. You're on the right track man. I used 1.5" .120 DOM for the main section, and 3/4" .120 DOM for the brace. That should give you a starting point. Go ahead and get about 10 feel of each...you'll need it if you're like me :.
Thanks Kiley, I needed some support here, I felt as if I were being flogged! I know everyone is just laying options on the table to help and I appreciate it. I just needed someone to say, you can do it the way you have it planned. Just for some comforting! I know it will be a lot of work, and I know I run the risk of having to go back to the drawing board (which I am prepared to do if need be). If it were easy, everyone would do it! Its not easy, and there is no bolt up kit for it, that in itself is more of a reason to try it in my book! I will plan plan plan and build build build until I have done what I set out to do!
Thanks for everything though guys and don't stop tossing around the thoughts, they are helpful in many ways!
I understand man. A lot of guys don't get it that you don't want to do it the easy way. You have a vision to follow. My uncle is an engineer and a hotrod guy but he is always on me about why I'm doing something a certain way when it doesn't really need it or there's an easier way. I listen to him and look to see if I'm just wasting time or being foolish but in the end I usually just say yeah, I know but this is how I want it.
Its good to get the cold hard voice of reason though.
If it were easy, everyone would do it! Its not easy, and there is no bolt up kit for it, that in itself is more of a reason to try it in my book! I will plan plan plan and build build build until I have done what I set out to do!
That bike is coming along quite nicely. I thought GS425s were only good for anchoring swim platforms...
I've reinforced more than one abused vintage V-twin frame lower rail set with angle iron. Looks fine as long as the point is parallel with the ground. Once the welds are dressed it looks like a stock feature.
If that shock ends up being too stiff, try one off of a VN800 Kawi. Monoshock with a bit too saggy a spring rate in its stock setting.
Can't wait to see this old girl coming together further. Let me know if you need some oddball bits and pieces. Used to work at a mostly metric bike junkyard...
Eileen is now well on her way to having a mono-shock suspension! I had completed my redesign when some new information lead to me becoming more enlightened of the rising rate theory (Thanks Chris Fiaccone)! I have altered the design (only slightly) to maximize the rising rate load on my current spring an I am still not using the linkage used in the factory CBR setup. A simple lecture in theory from Mr. Fioccone lead me in the right direction. After speaking with him I set out to research the new information he passed to me and it all made sense, it was literally like a light bulb coming on! I now have a design that not only gives me the look I was after but I am also confident that it will give me the desired ride and handling! It is hard for me to explain the design so you all will just have to wait a couple of weeks until I gather the steel and get it all bent and welded!
I am like a kid waiting on Christmas morning now that I have my design right, and I am confident! I owe Chris a huge thanks, I had been pounding my head on the keyboard trying to figure my spring rate and load! Turns out I was making it much more difficult than it should have been. Chris truely is a wealth of knowledge and I am grateful for his contribution to Eileen!
As soon as the real work (I.E. bending, welding of steel) begins I will have some pics and updates coming!
For all of you who supported and help me in this, huge thanks to all of you!
For the rest of you......I told you....you will see
Well I was going to wait until I got some steel going to post pics of the suspension progress.....BUT....I got a huge feeling of accomplishment when I got the math right and cut out my final template! So I had to post it up here!
First I make some mock-up shocks from wood, one represents a full length shock and the other a fully compressed shock. I then took some cardboard and held it on the swing arm to start marking some possible locations for the bottom and top ends of the shock to be mounted. At each point I tested the angles until I found the point I was after. Once that was done, I just made it pretty and tested it in both positions to make sure it worked! I think the brace design is done! Now on to steel and a couple of hoops to brace it to the swingarm and BooYaa! Mono-shock!
Here are some pics for you all!
Wooden mock-up shocks
Final cut out of the template
This is of the compressed block in the bracket with a square to show the angle and then with the bracket removed so the square can be seen more clearly!
Here are a few of it all together in the frame!
So with that said the hoops will be welded to the back of the bracket to support its load, one will go all the way from the old mounting point in the rear of the swingarm up and then around back to the other old mounting point. Running parrallel to the swingarm. The other hoop will be smaller and start on top of the lower hoop and cary over to meet back to the hoop again. This is hard to explain! I think its all done but the bending and melting! I can't wait!
Nice work dude. That's the kind of stuff that most people don't worry about at all, but when the bike's done it'll make all the difference. This bike is coming together much more quickly than I had anticipated. Keep it up... but not so much that you get un-engaged... I'm really looking forward to your bachelor party and if you get un-engaged...
Anyway I think it's great that you're doing what you set out to do and not letting people get ya down with nay-saying. The nay-sayers haven't done this. And that's why they nay-say.
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