Differences in grease
- Thread starter Nate
- Start date
There is a BIG difference between greases and they are not interchangable.
This is from Snobum's website... he is a BMW MC guru and should be listened to
....
http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/chemicalsetc.htm
He starts refering to the splines on the BMW final drive... but the artiucle covers other types as well.
6. You can probably get away with one brand and type of grease, but I feel a bit differently, and suggest two or three. For instance:
I like Chevron NLG1 (or NLG2, slightly thicker and better for wheel bearings and all the other places) Ultra Duty EP red grease. I use that grease 'as is' at various places. I also add perhaps 30%+ (NOT critical) of any common moly grease, for those applications where one would want moly added. If you have any left over Staburags or Optimol (two greases BMW use to recommend for splines at various times), it is probably OK to use that as the 30%+-. The Staburags reportedly may be very slightly abrasive, but I have seen little evidence of wear over many years of the above mixture, used at the clutch splines (transmission input shaft splines). This mixture of NLG1 (or NLG2) and a moly grease is a good mixture for use on the rear wheel splines on the twin-shock models, and those mentioned clutch splines. I have tried several types of greases for these splines, keeping track of condition after certain mileage's and type of riding/weather. I do not believe there is any perfect grease for these two applications. I have heard that Würth SIG 3000 may be quite good at the input shaft, it does NOT appear to the eyeball to contain moly...and I have installed some, but have no LONG term testing as yet to report to you. Mercury Marine outboard grease also works fairly well (Napa 18-9200). You can substitute Texaco Starplex 2 'with moly' (should be purchasable both with moly and without). Also, you can try Caterpillar spline lube: "Desert Gold Grease 129-1939, NLG1-2, with 5% moly." Honda "Moly 60 PASTE", available at their motorcycle dealerships, has also been reported as excellent by many folks. Folks have used that Honda grease by itself, with reasonably good results.
A grease that intrigues me, but I have not yet tested it, for splines, is Ford's Teflon based grease, Ford part number is D2AZ-19590-A. There are also some very fancy new greases based on Teflon-like substances, but I have no information...YET.
BelRay has an Assembly Lube....which is also marketed by their industrial division as Molylube Antiseize 15.....There is a report that this stuff has been doing well at the splines. Has an aluminum complex base, 15% moly solids, supposedly GOOD at preventing corrosion and fretting and has lots of water resistance.
****Do NOT use moly greases in wheel bearings or in the steering head bearings. Moly tends to change to stiff flaky bits if used in those roller bearing applications. As a general rule, do not use moly containing greases, oils, etc., at any place there is rotational speed differences, or in ball bearings, needle or roller bearings, and most sleeve bearings. Moly is GREAT for most SLIDING surfaces.
The red Chevron grease I mentioned above, withOUT moly, is particularly good for water vapor resistance; and, if you live in snow country, is excellent for those easy-to-wear-out universal joints on your 4 wheel drive truck. It is excellent for the BMW clutch throwout bearing parts, and pretty good for many places on your bike that need grease. It comes in standard grease gun tubes. You'll probably have to go to a Chevron distributor, not a gas station. While the Chevron red grease IS usable for wheel bearings, I prefer a different grease for them, but you could use the NLG2 for the wheels. You could simply stock NLG2 Chevron EP Ultra duty, some moly grease or Honda 60 paste, and those two would suffice for all your greasing needs...EXCEPT where silicon grease is far better...like at rubber parts such as petcocks and for electric connections. I am undecided if the special Bosch greases used at the automatic timing advance unit are better than the Chevron. Moly grease may be available cheaply in olive drab pound cans, at your military surplus dealer. I am still using some cans of this stuff I purchased a long time ago, manufactured in 1966! For those anal enough to want to know, here are the main items printed on the can, and the name and number is below. But, for most, just get the Honda 60 paste or a similar moly grease, if you do not have any type of moly grease on hand already.
G353, GMD, Grease, Molybdenum Disulfide, MIL-G-21164B
Some folks have had good results with using anti-seize compound on the clutch splines (AGAIN, this is actually on the transmission input splines ONLY, NOT the clutch disc splines with which it mates). Since anti-seize also has anti-corrosion properties, this may, in fact, work OK...but I have NOT tested it for this purpose. My suspicions are, without the slightest shred of proof, that the NICKEL antiseize's would be good.
A property of greases that is not well appreciated, besides lubrication and moisture resistance, is that for sliding surfaces like splines, you want some grease to remain on the parts and not be forced out or sc----d out. Not all greases are good at this. IT IS THESE PROPERTIES of staying in place and of thin-film moisture resistance THAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR THE clutch/input shaft SPLINES!!
7. For those of you with mechanical ignition with points, you can use any of the greases mentioned (without moly) in this posting, but Bosch does make greases: FT1V4 (5-700-002-005) just for the cam felt (and FT1V26 (5-700-005-005) just for the automatic advance guide shaft). If you decide to purchase these... not at all REALLY necessary IMHO, the small tubes will last you and about 50 members of your local club, the rest of your lives. Ford also made a distributor cam grease (felts too) number C4A2-19xxxx, but I am not happy with that one. My feeling is that the red grease without moly or the Bosch is just fine for the ignition parts on the pre-1979 airheads. Frankly, it is likely that any soft non-fibrous wheel bearing grease that is OK for disc brakes, will also work, as they should not melt and be thrown off easily. I've used BMW #10 red grease, and I've used the Chevron without moly, both are fine for this purpose. It is important that the ignition cam be very faintly greased, as if it runs dry, it may squeak, and case fast wear on the ignition points rubbing block, closing the points. The inside of the ATU also needs greasing.
8. I feel that for the wheel bearings you should 'consider' purchasing a REAL wheel bearing grease. BUT, again, that Chevron NLG2 mentioned previously DOES do a great job. The grease I have had the best results with (extremely long shelf life, does not separate, is not fibrous, and sticks and lubricates really well, and has decent water resistance) is Quaker State Multipurpose Grease and Wheel Bearing Lubricant. This grease is a NLG1 type of grease, similar in some respects to that red colored Chevron grease I mentioned...but different characteristics for these purposes, and is thicker.
This is from Snobum's website... he is a BMW MC guru and should be listened to
....http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/chemicalsetc.htm
He starts refering to the splines on the BMW final drive... but the artiucle covers other types as well.
6. You can probably get away with one brand and type of grease, but I feel a bit differently, and suggest two or three. For instance:
I like Chevron NLG1 (or NLG2, slightly thicker and better for wheel bearings and all the other places) Ultra Duty EP red grease. I use that grease 'as is' at various places. I also add perhaps 30%+ (NOT critical) of any common moly grease, for those applications where one would want moly added. If you have any left over Staburags or Optimol (two greases BMW use to recommend for splines at various times), it is probably OK to use that as the 30%+-. The Staburags reportedly may be very slightly abrasive, but I have seen little evidence of wear over many years of the above mixture, used at the clutch splines (transmission input shaft splines). This mixture of NLG1 (or NLG2) and a moly grease is a good mixture for use on the rear wheel splines on the twin-shock models, and those mentioned clutch splines. I have tried several types of greases for these splines, keeping track of condition after certain mileage's and type of riding/weather. I do not believe there is any perfect grease for these two applications. I have heard that Würth SIG 3000 may be quite good at the input shaft, it does NOT appear to the eyeball to contain moly...and I have installed some, but have no LONG term testing as yet to report to you. Mercury Marine outboard grease also works fairly well (Napa 18-9200). You can substitute Texaco Starplex 2 'with moly' (should be purchasable both with moly and without). Also, you can try Caterpillar spline lube: "Desert Gold Grease 129-1939, NLG1-2, with 5% moly." Honda "Moly 60 PASTE", available at their motorcycle dealerships, has also been reported as excellent by many folks. Folks have used that Honda grease by itself, with reasonably good results.
A grease that intrigues me, but I have not yet tested it, for splines, is Ford's Teflon based grease, Ford part number is D2AZ-19590-A. There are also some very fancy new greases based on Teflon-like substances, but I have no information...YET.
BelRay has an Assembly Lube....which is also marketed by their industrial division as Molylube Antiseize 15.....There is a report that this stuff has been doing well at the splines. Has an aluminum complex base, 15% moly solids, supposedly GOOD at preventing corrosion and fretting and has lots of water resistance.
****Do NOT use moly greases in wheel bearings or in the steering head bearings. Moly tends to change to stiff flaky bits if used in those roller bearing applications. As a general rule, do not use moly containing greases, oils, etc., at any place there is rotational speed differences, or in ball bearings, needle or roller bearings, and most sleeve bearings. Moly is GREAT for most SLIDING surfaces.
The red Chevron grease I mentioned above, withOUT moly, is particularly good for water vapor resistance; and, if you live in snow country, is excellent for those easy-to-wear-out universal joints on your 4 wheel drive truck. It is excellent for the BMW clutch throwout bearing parts, and pretty good for many places on your bike that need grease. It comes in standard grease gun tubes. You'll probably have to go to a Chevron distributor, not a gas station. While the Chevron red grease IS usable for wheel bearings, I prefer a different grease for them, but you could use the NLG2 for the wheels. You could simply stock NLG2 Chevron EP Ultra duty, some moly grease or Honda 60 paste, and those two would suffice for all your greasing needs...EXCEPT where silicon grease is far better...like at rubber parts such as petcocks and for electric connections. I am undecided if the special Bosch greases used at the automatic timing advance unit are better than the Chevron. Moly grease may be available cheaply in olive drab pound cans, at your military surplus dealer. I am still using some cans of this stuff I purchased a long time ago, manufactured in 1966! For those anal enough to want to know, here are the main items printed on the can, and the name and number is below. But, for most, just get the Honda 60 paste or a similar moly grease, if you do not have any type of moly grease on hand already.
G353, GMD, Grease, Molybdenum Disulfide, MIL-G-21164B
Some folks have had good results with using anti-seize compound on the clutch splines (AGAIN, this is actually on the transmission input splines ONLY, NOT the clutch disc splines with which it mates). Since anti-seize also has anti-corrosion properties, this may, in fact, work OK...but I have NOT tested it for this purpose. My suspicions are, without the slightest shred of proof, that the NICKEL antiseize's would be good.
A property of greases that is not well appreciated, besides lubrication and moisture resistance, is that for sliding surfaces like splines, you want some grease to remain on the parts and not be forced out or sc----d out. Not all greases are good at this. IT IS THESE PROPERTIES of staying in place and of thin-film moisture resistance THAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR THE clutch/input shaft SPLINES!!
7. For those of you with mechanical ignition with points, you can use any of the greases mentioned (without moly) in this posting, but Bosch does make greases: FT1V4 (5-700-002-005) just for the cam felt (and FT1V26 (5-700-005-005) just for the automatic advance guide shaft). If you decide to purchase these... not at all REALLY necessary IMHO, the small tubes will last you and about 50 members of your local club, the rest of your lives. Ford also made a distributor cam grease (felts too) number C4A2-19xxxx, but I am not happy with that one. My feeling is that the red grease without moly or the Bosch is just fine for the ignition parts on the pre-1979 airheads. Frankly, it is likely that any soft non-fibrous wheel bearing grease that is OK for disc brakes, will also work, as they should not melt and be thrown off easily. I've used BMW #10 red grease, and I've used the Chevron without moly, both are fine for this purpose. It is important that the ignition cam be very faintly greased, as if it runs dry, it may squeak, and case fast wear on the ignition points rubbing block, closing the points. The inside of the ATU also needs greasing.
8. I feel that for the wheel bearings you should 'consider' purchasing a REAL wheel bearing grease. BUT, again, that Chevron NLG2 mentioned previously DOES do a great job. The grease I have had the best results with (extremely long shelf life, does not separate, is not fibrous, and sticks and lubricates really well, and has decent water resistance) is Quaker State Multipurpose Grease and Wheel Bearing Lubricant. This grease is a NLG1 type of grease, similar in some respects to that red colored Chevron grease I mentioned...but different characteristics for these purposes, and is thicker.
Nate said:
I never said I had a specific answer ;D
I don't undertsand 1 tenth of what some of the guru's spout... I just follow their advice... I figure they know better.
And the same for factory specs unless countered by at least three guru's ;D
So by that formula... If it calls for moly grease and no three guru's say otherwise... use it... as for what can happen... don't know and I don't think you want to find out just to satisfy your curiosity do you?
true.......of course now I can't find any of the greases listed so I'm going to try with a high temp tolerable wheel bearing grease and see what happens...Thanks for the help...I'm beginning to wish I had a manually controlled advance/retard unit......I guess if it still busts my balls I'll have to splurge for the boyer set up
