Iv'e just read that the average age for motorcyclists in Britain is 49, if commuter mopeds are taken out of the equation the age is probably higher. The drop in numbers of young un's taking up riding is down to a combination of the availability of cheap cars, high insurance premiums, tough anti bike legislation and one of the toughest riding tests in the world, are other countries facing the same perfect storm?
Dying breed
- Thread starter Frog
- Start date
Mr.B
Everybody likes curves, when we talk about roads.
I would probably say that Yes, Sweden is in a similar decline.
Here's a outline what it takes to get your Motorcycle drivers license in Sweden
First of there are three classes of Licenses
A1 = Light bikes, Max 125cc and no more the 11kW and you have to be at age 16 or over to take the test.
A2 = No max cc but a limit at 35kW and you have to be at age 18 or over to take the test.
A = No limits but you have to have had A2 for two years or be at age 24 or over to take the test.
(If you are upgrading from a A2 (or A1+ at the age of 24) you only have to do the driving part of the tests)
Then it comes to the test(s).
First you need to attend a 4h "lecture" on the risks in traffic (called "risk one", freely translated)
Second you need to do a 4-5h driving course focused on avoiding risks and learn how to take corners, braking etc etc (called "risk two", again freely translated)
Third (and this can't be done without doing the previous two steps) you have to do the theoretical exam (70 multi-choice questions in 1h)
And the finally you have the driving test which is divided in two parts
- First part is to test your ability to handle the bike, High-speed braking, "high-speed"-slalom and walking-speed slalom. and some minor questions about the bikes primary system (ie check so everything is working, chains, sprockets, electrical, brakes, bearings and such)
- And if you pass the first part you are out in traffic for about 25-30 minutes.
If you pass all these at the first time without any driving classes and you have your own bike you're looking at a cost of roughly $570 or £355
So the main reason that the riders in Sweden are in a decline is that it's really expensive and time consuming. And the age restrictions is also a factor.
(one driving lesson costs roughly $70 or £44 and thats 40min.)
(Might add that people who took their Driver License for the car before 1960 got their MC license added at the same time.)
About owning a Motorcycle in Sweden, If you are in to classics (as most of us here are) the insurance is really low (compared to all other vehicles), but if you want newer more powerful bikes the insurance is way to expensive.
(A couple of years ago i checked what a R1 would cost me (at age 24), don't remember what the R1 went for at the time but it was a 2000 model and had a couple of years on it, but the cost of the insurance was around $2800 a year and I think the price of the bike was around twice that).
The taxes on bikes are low, and if older than 30 years there's no tax at all (same with cars).
Here's a outline what it takes to get your Motorcycle drivers license in Sweden
First of there are three classes of Licenses
A1 = Light bikes, Max 125cc and no more the 11kW and you have to be at age 16 or over to take the test.
A2 = No max cc but a limit at 35kW and you have to be at age 18 or over to take the test.
A = No limits but you have to have had A2 for two years or be at age 24 or over to take the test.
(If you are upgrading from a A2 (or A1+ at the age of 24) you only have to do the driving part of the tests)
Then it comes to the test(s).
First you need to attend a 4h "lecture" on the risks in traffic (called "risk one", freely translated)
Second you need to do a 4-5h driving course focused on avoiding risks and learn how to take corners, braking etc etc (called "risk two", again freely translated)
Third (and this can't be done without doing the previous two steps) you have to do the theoretical exam (70 multi-choice questions in 1h)
And the finally you have the driving test which is divided in two parts
- First part is to test your ability to handle the bike, High-speed braking, "high-speed"-slalom and walking-speed slalom. and some minor questions about the bikes primary system (ie check so everything is working, chains, sprockets, electrical, brakes, bearings and such)
- And if you pass the first part you are out in traffic for about 25-30 minutes.
If you pass all these at the first time without any driving classes and you have your own bike you're looking at a cost of roughly $570 or £355
So the main reason that the riders in Sweden are in a decline is that it's really expensive and time consuming. And the age restrictions is also a factor.
(one driving lesson costs roughly $70 or £44 and thats 40min.)
(Might add that people who took their Driver License for the car before 1960 got their MC license added at the same time.)
About owning a Motorcycle in Sweden, If you are in to classics (as most of us here are) the insurance is really low (compared to all other vehicles), but if you want newer more powerful bikes the insurance is way to expensive.
(A couple of years ago i checked what a R1 would cost me (at age 24), don't remember what the R1 went for at the time but it was a 2000 model and had a couple of years on it, but the cost of the insurance was around $2800 a year and I think the price of the bike was around twice that).
The taxes on bikes are low, and if older than 30 years there's no tax at all (same with cars).
CafeRacer650
Dream it. Build it. Live it.
If the numbers are similar in America, it's because the kids that are being brought up today are so "thrill-stunted" and lazy that motorcycles don't stimulate them enough. Also they are too dumb to operate a motorcycle and end up killing themselves. This makes me worried about America in the next 30 years.
Basement rat
Over 1,000 Posts
Darwin at work.
TommyRocker
Been Around the Block
CafeRacer650 said:
I don't think the numbers would be so similar in America. I've been riding since I was 18, and I know several people my age who ride. I also know women my age who ride, and more who are interested. I think the biggest thing is money. A lot of people my age can't afford a new bike, and most young people aren't into 30 year old bikes. I know my first bike was a brand new 2007 ZX6, and at the time I had very little interest in anything older or slower.
Bons
Active Member
Mr.B said:
From januari, we'll have a similar system in the Netherlands, except you will have to be 18 before you can even start your A1. In order to get your first (a1) licence, you have to pass your theoretical exams and a test te ensure you can handle a bike, for example braking, slalom, figure 8 etc.
It's quite expensive, but i have no idea if the number of young people riding here is decreasing at the moment.
In Florida, it cost me $200, 8 hours in a class, 8 hours on a little rinky Dink Suzuki 250. Had 5 people in the class that had never been on a bike before the class, four passed the riding test 100/100, the other 99/100. Three of them were friends, who had all bought litre bikes, one wanted a cruiser, and the girl's daddy had bought her a new Ninja 250. Things like that frighten me. It needs to be more difficult, IMO.
Brentscafe
Active Member
When I got my license in Alberta about ten years ago, I didn't even have to do a road test!! Just some basic maneuvering in a parking lot. I can say I definitely not ready to take my brand new Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R out on the road.
In Britain the test consists of three parts, theory, which includes traffic law, bike maintenance and safety, basic training, which includes bike handling skills, for instance riding around an obstacle course, slow riding which involves riding at walking pace without putting your feet down, emergency stop, and avoiding a vehicle, the last one is supposed to show that you can get around a vehicle that has pulled out on you, you have to ride towards a barrier of cones at twenty miles per hour and when the examiner raises his arm you have to flick the bike around the barrier which represents a car, needless to say there have been several accidents, one very serious and the examiners and trainers have complained to the DOT that this part of the test is dangerous and unrealistic.
The third part of the test is on the road in normal conditions, which in London means gridlock, you must make progress by filtering and adhering to traffic law the examiner follows behind and is linked by intercom, if you wish to ride a bike above 33bhp there are other things you need to do, you can no longer pass your test on a small bike and then buy a large cc machine.
If all this shit was in force when I first started riding I doubt I would have got a bike, for me and my mates a bike was the cheapest and easiest route to mobility, you sent off for a provisional licence, went down the dealers bought an RD250/GT250/KH250 stuck an L plate on and off you went.
Later on they introduced compulsory training and restriction to below 125 with L plates, this system was fine, it reduced accidents and encouraged people to get training and take the test so they could get a large bike.
Since I first started riding the bike test has changed several times, getting tougher along the way, whereas the car test has hardly changed at all, this shows there is a bias against motorcylists.
The third part of the test is on the road in normal conditions, which in London means gridlock, you must make progress by filtering and adhering to traffic law the examiner follows behind and is linked by intercom, if you wish to ride a bike above 33bhp there are other things you need to do, you can no longer pass your test on a small bike and then buy a large cc machine.
If all this shit was in force when I first started riding I doubt I would have got a bike, for me and my mates a bike was the cheapest and easiest route to mobility, you sent off for a provisional licence, went down the dealers bought an RD250/GT250/KH250 stuck an L plate on and off you went.
Later on they introduced compulsory training and restriction to below 125 with L plates, this system was fine, it reduced accidents and encouraged people to get training and take the test so they could get a large bike.
Since I first started riding the bike test has changed several times, getting tougher along the way, whereas the car test has hardly changed at all, this shows there is a bias against motorcylists.
Haligonian
New Member
CafeRacer650 said:
Wow! That is an offensive statement about your younger generation.
TommyRocker
Been Around the Block
Yeah, old dudes are always anxious to talk about how inferior the next generation is, meanwhile the world keeps marching on and we keep making progress at an exponential rate.
CafeRacer650
Dream it. Build it. Live it.
Haligonian said:
Could be, except I'm not that old.
scottyfunj
Been Around the Block
Here in Utah it seems like asian scooters are taking over the streets. I think I see 2 of them for every motorcycle I see. Maybe more.
Kind of ironic. 51 years ago I go my learners permit here in California. I was legal to ride any size motorcycle regardless of my skill level. When I went to Ireland in the mid 60s there was no speed limit (as I think was the norm throughout Europe). Couldn't be ticketed for speeding. Everybody's dream. But the bikes we had could barely top the ton. As time progressed and the Japs made faster and faster bikes more and more restrictions to obtaining a license came into force. Now we have 180+ bikes (with a warranty) and speed limits that make anything beyond first gear highly illegal.
I don't worry about today's generation of riders. I feel sad for them as the bikes are now so complicated with electronics etc. the fun of pottering is taken away. And the bikes are so fast there is no need to dream of making them faster.
Will tiered licenses appear here? More than likely. But the attitude towards bikes here is totally different to the attitude in Europe so it may take a while. Also Europe is now one (of sorts) big state. And the countries within the EEC appear to be more than willing to knuckle under whatever new laws the EEC comes up with. The states that make up the U.S. may (and hopefully will) prove to be a bit more ornery.
I don't worry about today's generation of riders. I feel sad for them as the bikes are now so complicated with electronics etc. the fun of pottering is taken away. And the bikes are so fast there is no need to dream of making them faster.
Will tiered licenses appear here? More than likely. But the attitude towards bikes here is totally different to the attitude in Europe so it may take a while. Also Europe is now one (of sorts) big state. And the countries within the EEC appear to be more than willing to knuckle under whatever new laws the EEC comes up with. The states that make up the U.S. may (and hopefully will) prove to be a bit more ornery.
N
NortonGuy
Guest
TommyRocker said:
What progress is that may I ask? Are you talking about the world financial crisis, the destruction of our world's environment, the non-stop wars and conflicts around the world? The way everyone from age 8 and up is so insecure about themselves and afraid to walk out of their home into the real world without a "smart" phone in their hand to help them deal with it and to reassure them 24/7 that they are not alone? The only progress being made at an "exponential rate" is heading to hell in a hand-basket.
As far as legitimate motorcyclists and bikers go, there has not been hardly any new ones since MTV and internet websites like this one helped turned motorcycles predominantly into fashion accessories for wannabees.
TommyRocker
Been Around the Block
Damn, you got me. My history is a bit rusty, I had forgotten about the thousands of years of peace and prosperity humanity enjoyed that ended when Bush II initiated the crusades, the Great Depression, Euro-Imperialism, the Rape of Nanking, World Wars 1 and 2, the US Civil War, Vietnam, the Mongol Conquests, the Darien Scheme... Man alive, things really HAVE gone to shit during my generation!
Love Tyson, that guy gets it right..
