Firming up front forks.

rewindstuff

Active Member
My front forks are soft. Too soft.
Im about to rebuild them anyway. If I add heavier oil, wil that dampen them a little more?
 
Uhhhh, what kind of forks? Yes, 15w fork oil helps. I usually preload them too. You can cut some PVC pipe to length to get the correct preload based on about 30mm sag. On my forks (CL175 K7), I put the spacers under the damper rod. That shortened my forks and preloaded them at the same time.
 
15w fork oil, i like spectro.... also your springs may be sacked out... look into replacing them with progressive
 
Another mod would be to weld the damping holes close and redrilling them a couple steps smaller. I have no FHE with it, just passing on what I've read. So, you'll have to do your own research to the exact procedure.
 
i have heard of using emulators and then drilling the damper holes bigger (have done this on several HD's) but never drilling them smaller i am not sure how that would improve the forks if anythign it woud slow down the rebound resulting in a tank slapper...
 
Something we do down our way is to chuck a stack of coins in the top which preloads the springs. I've got about 60 cents worth of 20 cents peices in each fork, but I'm looking at extending the investment to a dollar per leg. This can also be done by cutting down some steel or brass pipe. Adding heavier fork oil as well then adds to the damping.
 
Cut an inch off the spring with an angle grinder and fit a 1-1/2" spacer.
Less working coils give a stiffer spring and spacer pre-loads plus takes up the bit you cut off.
 
It's the front forks off a 1977 xs 500. By design I think that they're just real squishy anyway. I'll have to look into getting some PVC or stacking some quarters. I was definitely planning on upping the viscosity of the fork oil anyway, so good to know its not gonna harm anything. Thanks for the good tips guys!
 
Just make sure you use pre 1977 quarters or it won't be a period correct modification ;)
 
Keep your suspension characteristics in balance. Too much damping with too soft springs will cause your forks to "pump down" when things get bumpy. Too firm springs with too little damping will cause rapid rebound and make your front end bounce.

If you can afford a set of Progressive springs, installing them would be a great idea. (Under $100.) They come with a length of PVC and instructions for setting the preload by adjusting the length of the PVC spacer. You want to set the preload so that when you sit on the bike, the forks will compress about 1/2" from their fullest extension. That will be a bit on the firm side, but probably about right for a cafe racer. (I like a bike for touring to be just as firm, but that's just me.)

Next, the viscosity of the fork oil adjusts how much damping you have. 15 wt fork oil often is just about right. It's higher viscosity than generally comes from the factory, which is almost always too soft. Higher viscosity oil increases the damping to go along with the stiffer spring preload, and compensates somewhat for loss of damping caused by wear. It's not at all unusual to even use 20 wt or 30 wt fork oil in an older bike.

There is one more factor that can be adjusted somewhat with the oil. Forks are what we call "emulsion" type suspension. That is, there is no physical separation between the oil and the air in the forks. When the forks are compressed, the air space inside is compressed, effectively increasing the spring pre-load. This makes the spring action more progressive. By adding a little extra oil, (like an extra ounce,) the airspace is smaller. This, in effect, increases the "compression ratio" of the air in the forks, and the pressure increases more rapidly as the forks compress. This makes the forks more resistant to bottoming out. Too much oil, and the forks will bottom out on the oil before they run out of travel. Some will say this could cause the fork seals to blow out, but I have only ever heard of that happening once. Fork oil seals are the same type of seals used in high pressure hydraulic cylinders. Allow that almost an ounce of oil will stay in the fork when you drain them. If they are taken apart, (like for seal replacement,) they will be completely empty dry.

You've gotten several pieces of advice suggesting making modifications to the internal hardware of your forks. I don't think you should go there unless you are willing to take your forks apart several times and are prepared to buy new parts if you mess something up. You can accomplish what you are looking for simply by getting the spring preload set properly and adjusting the oil viscosity to match the stiffer spring preload. Forget about stacking coins in the forks. Why would you put quarters in there when the hardware store sells washers for a nickel? I have worked on older forks that I had to add 2" of preload the springs were so sagged out. Go to a home improvement center and buy some PVC pipe. Measure the ID of your fork tubes and get some PVC that will fit in there. Many home improvement centers have "project lengths" of pipe that are 2 feet long so that you don't have to buy a whole 10 foot piece.
 
JRK5892 said:
i have heard of using emulators and then drilling the damper holes bigger (have done this on several HD's) but never drilling them smaller i am not sure how that would improve the forks if anythign it woud slow down the rebound resulting in a tank slapper...

I was thinking the compression path not the rebound. I agree, more rebound damping is bad too.

The 1/2" compression for preload AlphaDog mentioned is the sag I mentioned. Yeah, 1/2" will be firmer than the 30mm I said. But you can adjust that based on your preference. You'll need a buddy to hold up the bike while you sit on it with full gear to correctly set the sag. Bounce up and down a few times to let the forks settle. You might as well set the sag on the shocks at the same time.

But like AlphaDog said, don't change the internals unless you understand what you are doing. Do one mod at a time, ride it and change it if necessary. There is a lot of information out there about suspension tuning.
 
Front and rear sag should be set at approximately 1/3 of suspension travel when your sitting on bike, upright, feet on footrests (you'll need help to set it and take measurements)
There are instructions all over the web, mainly on sport bike or racing forums.
ADC is describing 'free sag' which is checked after 'ride sag' is fixed (also called 'race sag')
To set it properly you will have to change springs and spring rates as there is very limited adjustment on 'our' old bikes.
Generally, using washers isn't a good idea if you cut springs as they can 'screw down' into the coils (at least, until you heat end , bend it down and grind 'flat')
Modifying springs isn't the big deal people make out, couple of the dirt bike forums have formula for working out spring rates from wire diameter and active coils then 'how to' to modify (there is some math involved though, but, if you use 'MS Windows' you have a calculator
 
Even though I agree that washers are a cheaper option as is PVC pipe, if you measure up how much static sag is in the forks and it's only gonna cost you $1.50 per leg, why not just dig some change out of the old ladie's purse? The benefit is that you have shims which you can fine tune and can add more in or take more out as needed. If you take note how many are in there you know what size spacer you need and can then go about getting the PVC or other pipe ready for the future when you pull them down again to change fork oil and seals.
 
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