First Post, First Motorcycle, First Project! 1972 CB 350 Twin

cyclone64

New Member
Hey everyone,

As the title says... This is my first Motorcycle, and the first time I've worked on one at all. I have some experience with cars, and am working on my BS in mechanical engineering at Oregon State... So in theory I should at least know my way around a tool box and hopefully be able to get some stuff done on this bike (theory and should are the key words in that sentence). Anyway feel free to go easy on my lack of knowledge, but if I'm about to do something stupid go ahead and set me straight :).

I'm a pretty talkative guy so here's a little background (if it bores you or this much story telling doesn't belong in the project section you're welcome to scroll down to the project ;) ).

Being a college student I'm on a very limited budget. To make a few extra bucks I've been buying and selling things on craigslist. Generators, lawnmowers, boats etc - things I can get running, clean up and make a bit of cash on. About two months ago I found a 1972 Honda CB350 on craigslist 2 miles from my house for $50. It had "died 4 years ago, and to have it diagnosed at the shop wasn't worth it so I parked it in the garage". It came with a clean title, and was all there with the exception of mufflers. It kicked over, sounded as though it had compression and shifted through all the gears. About an hour after it was posted on Craigslist I had it in my carport at my house.

Insert image here - the pictures of when I got it are at my house at school, I'll go down there and get them in a week or two.

Initially I had planned on selling it for a profit, but when I started thinking about my dad's bike (a 1978 GS 550) and the way gas prices are, and how cheap motorcycle insurance is I figured I'd fix it up and ride it (much to my mom's dismay). Work was postponed until finals were over and I could bring it to my parents house for the summer.

I planned on simply getting it running. The battery was dead so with some jumper cables and a car battery (clearly the best method...) I gave it a go. All the lights worked, and it cranked over fine. It seems the plug wires were completely shot, so with some temporary tinkering and a little starter fluid I got it to sputter. I figured this meant with some work it'd be good to go, so I started removing and cleaning things. Before I knew it I had this:



Once I got here, my dad came home from work and after looking at it we said WTF and decided to strip it to the frame and build it back up.
A few hours later the bare frame was on my patio, the motor tucked in the shed and boxes of parts filled my (moved out older) brother's room.

Here's the plans - not AT ALL set in stone:

Budget - as little as possible - If I can do it for a couple hundred that would be AMAZING - though perhaps that's wishful thinking... My dad does have a lot of connections in the car industry so those will certainly help. That and I browse craigslist almost religiously...

Frame - A friend of my dad's works at a professional media blasting place. He'll do the whole frame for $30 bucks. I have a small sand blaster available for use for smaller parts. I then plan on using the best primer rustoleum has to offer and the brightest red paint to grace a rattle can. I also found the fork bearings to be shot, so those will need replacing. Are the bearings for these available at a bearing place or are they something specific? All hardware possibly will be replaced with cad plated aircraft hardware, as my uncles have an aircraft business and I get it free or cheap :). Also, reading my plans below, is there anything I should remove from the frame, or do before paint? I'd like it to have the minimum possible - nice and clean.

Engine - I bought a set of UNI pod air filters and two "shorty" mufflers off craigslist for $40... no idea how good a deal that was, and I'm told I'll need to rejet the carbs afterwards. Other than that it'll get a thorough degreasing, some paint and new plug wires, though it seems they're integrated into the coils? Not sure, here any ideas for the cheapest route?

Body - No clue here. The plan for the look of the bike is this - bright red frame, bare metal tank. The guy that does sandblasting can also paint, and has some amazing airbrushing skills (skillz?). Apparently they finally have a clear that lasts when over bare metal. Sounds like he'll spray it if he gets to do some creative with the airbrushing. I plan on cutting down the front and rear fenders and giving them the same treatment. Here's where I have major issues. I really would like to not have the factory seat! I want to go with something more cafe style. What I'd really like is a cafe seat, but to have the frame extended and a long seat that looks cafe but has room for two. The problems are this: I don't know of anything like this pre-made, and if there was one they all seem to be around $100 or more. That's half of my hopeful budget. Secondly, I have NO experience with bodywork, or fiberglass. Any ideas? I'd also really like it if whatever I did could hide the battery. I've seen people put them behind the seat and people extend the tank and put it there, but I really like the look of the center area open with just air filters.

Bars - I love the look of clip-ons, but they're spendy. Clubmans are pretty cool too... but still cost a decent amount. How about the factory bars upside down and backwards? Anyone do this?

Rear controls... Rear sets? Does anyone have some plans for making these? I have the ability to weld at my house. I can run a mill and a lathe though I don't have either available for use (aside from a 70 year old lathe in unknown condition). Are there some off another bike that can work and can be had for cheap?


That's basically it for now, if anyone has any recommendations or suggestions or pictures of similar bikes done up for motivation / ideas I'd love to hear / see it!

Sorry about the lack of pictures. I'll leave you with one of my brothers room full of parts, showing my other two wheeled hobby in the background - bikes you have to pedal to get around on ;)



 
Hey,
Welcome to the site...
This is definately the place for you cb350 build... There are a lot of cb350 & cb360 expertises lurking within the dark corners of this forum...
 
Geez, dude, quite the disertation :)

I'm a pretty talkative guy

Yes you are :)

Being a college student I'm on a very limited budget. To make a few extra bucks I've been buying and selling things on craigslist. Generators, lawnmowers, boats etc - things I can get running, clean up and make a bit of cash on.

I like your style.

Budget - as little as possible - If I can do it for a couple hundred that would be AMAZING - though perhaps that's wishful thinking... My dad does have a lot of connections in the car industry so those will certainly help.

That's possible if the tires are good. If the tires need to be replaced, add a couple hundred to that for some good ones or $100 for some crap ones. I tapped enough shoulders to be $500 out of pocket for my 350 cafe and that included tires...or maybe it didn't; I forget.

I then plan on using the best primer rustoleum has to offer and the brightest red paint to grace a rattle can.

Don't do this. If you know someone who will paint the bike, ask them to paint the frame as well. Especially if it doesn't cost you anything. If nothing else, have them spray a good clearcoat after your rattle can job.

I also found the fork bearings to be shot, so those will need replacing. Are the bearings for these available at a bearing place or are they something specific?

All balls racing sells the tapered steering bearings for $40 or so. What's wrong with your bearings? Are you missing some of the steel balls? if so, I probably have a few I can send you.

All hardware possibly will be replaced with cad plated aircraft hardware, as my uncles have an aircraft business and I get it free or cheap :).

That's very nice. I'm actually in the market for some aircraft bolts myself. Perhaps we can work out an arrangment.

Also, reading my plans below, is there anything I should remove from the frame, or do before paint? I'd like it to have the minimum possible - nice and clean.

yeah, shave off all the tabs and box in the seat. I'd either weld a plate inder the seat or use aircraft rivets to structurally mount a piece of aluminum there.

Here's where I have major issues. I really would like to not have the factory seat! I want to go with something more cafe style. What I'd really like is a cafe seat, but to have the frame extended and a long seat that looks cafe but has room for two.

OK, you're in college, and whilst riding this thing, panties will fly off. You really do need a 2-up seat. Have a look at the bratstyle seats. These can be made very cheaply with marine-grade ply, some padding and a niece pice of leather. With some lower clubmans (not upside down bars), it will look amazing. I wish I would have gone this route. The ladies will love going for rides. If you use the bratstyle seat, keep your mid controls and use the passenger pegs for the passenger.

1403.jpg


I've seen people put them behind the seat and people extend the tank and put it there, but I really like the look of the center area open with just air filters.

Personally, I'd just run the smallest battery possible (like from an R6) and keep it in the regular location. Fabricate a nice box and just leave the battery exposed. I used three small batteries (about the size of a pack of smokes) and put them between the frame rails and the seet. They are completely invisible. My website is down right now or I'd show you.

Rear controls... Rear sets? Does anyone have some plans for making these? I have the ability to weld at my house. I can run a mill and a lathe though I don't have either available for use (aside from a 70 year old lathe in unknown condition). Are there some off another bike that can work and can be had for cheap?

I created some PDF plans for some $40 rearsets. But again, I'd personally just keep the mid controls and passenger pegs. If you run rear controls in the normal passenger location, where will the passenger's feet go?

And there you have it! If i ever get around to building another cafe, the plans outlined above is exactly what I would use. I built two cafe's, and I wish I could show you some of the pictures. PM me offlist because I have some things you might be interested in...for free.

--Chris
 
PM me your email address and I can send you an FTP link to download a PDF of the the shop manual. I think I may also have the pdf files for the honda common service manual... interesting for those who are new at this... (myself included...)

I have a pile of 350 parts as well... Once you get into it more post your needs and we'll see what we can do. The bars that were on both of my cb350's had wiring internally in the bars and holes cut underneath... and would not work upside down. You can get a set of black or chrome clubmans for 30 bucks shipped.. shop around and you can find them for about 22 bucks a pair + shipping... Money well spent!!

I agree... keep the mid controls, and the passenger pegs. Don't buy cheap tires.

Good luck!
 
Welcome to the site, and have fun in college. Eventually you'll be out and wish you were back in.
 
Reading your intro was like a flashback to when I started my project. I also have a 72 cb350, which was also my first bike, and I am also working on my BS in mechanical engineering. I recently made my rearests from scratch on a mill and lathe, so when I have time I'll try to show you how I did it all. Have fun with this one, they are a great bike to learn on.
 
Oh man, so many replies! This forum is awesome!

Let's see if I can respond to everything.

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

I think the tires are OK. They have great tread and aren't checked or anything. They actually look pretty new. 3.25/3.5 18 front, and 3.5/3.75 18 rear. The brand is Cheng Shin... Which is why I say OK, because that sounds a little hokey to me. Of course I know nothing about motorcycle tires so they might be good.

As far as paint goes. The reason I can get the tank done for free is because the guy is clearing a rat rod 50something Chevy truck. He'll already have the material and it would only take a few minutes to spray it on the side. That and he likes getting his air-brushing "out there". I'm hoping if I take my time and prime it well the Ol' rattle can job will turn out decent. I will try and talk to him though and see what it'd run to paint the frame, I just think it might be a bit out of my range.

As far as the fork bearings go, yes some were missing, but also some of the ones there were crumbling and the races are well worn - kinda surprising for a bike with 17,xxx miles but I don't know. The tapered bearings should wear much better anyway and part of the deal with my parents is that they'll help me out a bit on the bike as long as I do everything possible to ensure it's safe. My dad took one look at the bearings and said it was new ones... So new ones it is.

Chris - As far as the aircraft hardware etc, when I get a moment (likely when I'm done with this) I'll send you a message.

Sounds good about shaving off the tabs on the seat I just want to make sure I'll be able to make one like you showed so that I'm not stuck without a seat at all :)

The seat on that triumph looks awesome! I also like the idea of keeping the standard controls because that'll save some money. Will it be that uncomfortable riding with the clubmans and the factory controls though? Comfort isn't a major concern but I wouldn't want it to be so bad I wouldn't want to ride. As long as it's not too bad your plan sounds perfect to me.

It needs a new battery anyway so I'll probably just look for a small one like you said and make some sort of creative mount for it.

Seriously Chris - with just one post you've been a lot of help - Thanks :)

sl8rxlr8r - thanks for the advice on the clubmans. I think I'll probably just be going that route. I like the look of clip-ons but the price and the fact that they'd probably be even lower than clubmans makes me want to go with them.

Everyone else - thanks for the kind words and the welcome!
 
Cheng shins' are sorta like the low end tires... JC whitney sells them pretty cheap. I'm sure the parents understand the need for a good set of tires. They're worth every penny IMO. Practically nothing more important than your control of the contact to the ground when it comes to riding.

And good tires just look cool...
 
HEY!!! Get the Avon RoadRiders everyone RAVES about!!! You'll kick yourself if you don't. You'll likely spend under $200 for them at that size. Pretty much the same as the ones on my XS400. Check the thread for some ideas. http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=1566.0

I started out thinking the same thing as you about my project.... only a couple hundred bucks just for a cheap project to keep me out of trouble for a while. Well, I'm scared to think about the total now, but I think it's well into the 4 digits, and going on a year's time. It runs, but still needs a bunch of work. But sure looks purty!! The majority of stuff was hand made by yours truly. So that's proof it can all be done with some time, thought, and a toolbox full of hand tools and small power tools.
 
Hey I just found these on evil-bay... Anyone know anything about them?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CB350-CB-350-all-models-Steering-Stem-Bearings_W0QQitemZ360064101444QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360064101444&

Seem like they would work?

Thanks
 
I've never heard of that brand, but that is the style you need. I think I paid around $35 shipped for the all balls bearings, so it might be worth the extra few buck to be able to get the tech support from this group.

If you go All Balls, it is less expensive to buy from their distributors. I think you'll save $10 or so.

--Chris
 
IagainstI said:
what's better? tapered roller bearing or ball bearings?

If I actually listened in my Design II : Mechanical Failure class... I'm pretty sure rollers are better for greater loads but not high speeds, and balls for smaller loads and higher speeds. Methinks steering would be the first and so rollers would be better. The taper is just to limit up-down motion... Yeah that sounds right. Did I actually learn something in class?!? Heh, well if I didn't I'm sure someone will correct me.

Update (kinda): I got a few parts sand blasted and primed today. I started on the SOS'ing of the wheels and they're coming out pretty good. My uncle is taking some parts to be cad-plated so I think I might give him the rear sprocket and get that done.

I got some good ideas from Chris and am waiting on getting my spiffy clean frame back so I can start carrying them out - so I've been shooting around ideas and polishing up some bits and pieces in the meantime...

A few ideas / questions to run by you guys:

I'm going to my place in Corvallis tomorrow - I'll pick up my camera and the pictures of the bike as I got it stowed away on it's SD card.

Anyone know of some shocks that would fit but maybe lower the bike an inch or two? Can't I just slide the forks a little higher in the triple clamp to lower the front?

Is there anything cheap / quick(ish) that I should do to the engine while it's sitting off the frame? I plan on cleaning the whole thing and possibly painting it - and on that note will the paint cause cooling issues? Should I maybe just paint the block and try my best to get the fins on the head as clean as possible?

Any recommendations as far as color goes? I think I want a bare metal tank (with a clearcoat) and fenders. What about the frame though? I was initially thinking a bright red, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.
 
cyclone64 said:
Is there anything cheap / quick(ish) that I should do to the engine while it's sitting off the frame? I plan on cleaning the whole thing and possibly painting it - and on that note will the paint cause cooling issues? Should I maybe just paint the block and try my best to get the fins on the head as clean as possible?

I asked my boss(old-time mechanic) about that when I was getting ready to paint mine. He said, "if it insulated that well, I would paint my windows in the winter."
 
Alrighty... Understandably pictures seem to help a lot... So here ya go :)

I'm a little upset at myself because I seem to have deleted / lost the pictures I took when I first brought the bike home. I did however find the pictures the previous owner emailed me, though I suspect they were taken prior to its sitting out for a couple years... Anyway they're here.

I also took a few pictures of parts I've been cleaning / polishing. I think the gauges came out presentable, so I might just leave them - it is a 30 some-odd year old bike after-all. The forks have only been cleaned and gone over with a very coarse polish. I think I'll go over them again with something finer to get a better shine.

There is also a picture of the sprocket. Should I cad plate it or paint it? I can get it cad plated (the yellow/gold color variety... cad 2?) for a couple bucks.

Lastly, a picture of my motivation - my dad's GS550. You might notice the left muffler just went out. I'm currently attempting to convince him a 4 into 1 would be sweet ;D

Sorry about the lack of a real update, but there isn't a whole lot I can do whilst the frame is being blasted :(
 
So I tried attaching the remaining images twice now and it just has an error. The images aren't over the size limit so... yeah. I'll try again in a bit.
 
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