Frame welding modification on 82 CM450C

inkstom

New Member
1982 CM450C

Here She is, black beauty.
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I want to do what WrenchTechRacing did and chop off the frame and weld support for a monoshock. I talked to a local bike shop owner and he made it sound like heart surgery with tools I didn't have to make it all happen. I have a tig and mig welder and I know how to use them. I also have a machine shop at my disposal. Is there anything special I need to know about welding a monoshock to the frame/swing arm?

WrenchTechRacing's build: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=44429.msg489651#msg489651

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Good question. You need an engineering degree or at least a working knowledge of strength of materials, and mechanical design. You can take the shortcut and get most of the information you need from Tony Foale's books and software.

My welder does amazing welding but he can't design a rear suspension for the perspectives of geometry or strength. I can muddle through design, but my welding leaves a lot to be desired. Design and fabrication both have to be well done if you want it to work and be safe.
 
Thank you for your response, although I disagree with your answer. If it took an engineering degree to work on the frame of a bike this forum would be the smartest community on the face of the planet.

As far as welding is concerned, it has been done before, as evidenced by the picture. I don't see any issues with the structural integrity of my design, however, I am looking for advice on what some potential nuances of frame welding may be encountered throughout the process. What guage tube/plate should I use, that sort of thing.
 
you should box in the stamped part of frame behind the engine,its not that thick n would want to twist under load.
 
Shut up
And listen to what teazer and adc are telling you just because some one puts the word wrench in the name doesn't mean they know how to use one. The bike your taking inspiration from is a death trap. There is right and wrong ways to change suspension.
I personally don't think there is a lot you can do to make a Honda worse but I don't want to see anyone hurt

O and for the record dtt IS full of the smartest people in the universe why do you think we're tring to keep you from killing yourself
 
Joon-yah Bourelle said:
you should box in the stamped part of frame behind the engine,its not that thick n would want to twist under load.
this is the guy to listen to on hondamatic's he single handedly drove cm resale prices up
 
and unless you can keep the seat low I wouldn't monoshock. A high center of gravity doesn't work well with these platforms. Twin shocks work better imo.
 
I get that you don't want to hear what I said, but your ability as a welder is not the issue. It's the ability to work out what forces are involved and how to tame those forces. There are all sorts of abominations on this forum and others and few of them are ridden anywhere by anyone. And just because you have seen someone else do it doesn't make it safe or smart.

I have known a lot of people who do drugs and some of them sare still alive and not in jail, but that doesn't mean I should follow their example.

Let's just start with one example. Look at your swingarm and imagine the forces acting on the rear wheel. When it hits a bump it wants to move upwards. What resists it are two shocks mounted close to teh wheel, so that all teh forces act locally and there is little force causing the swingarm to bend.

Now imagine the rear wheel trying to rise in your configuration. What resist it is a shock mounted let's say 1/3 of the way back from the pivot, so now the swingarm is trying to pivot around a semi rigid mount (the shock) and it will try to bend there. Bracing might help a little but the skinny little swingarm tubes are basically too small to resist bending that way and will bend and fail.

You could replace the swingarm with one that's twice the depth with a decent bridge like one from a modern bike of course.

Next there's shock geometry to consider. How far will the wheel move and over the range of movement, how much will the shock be compressed in that movement? Let's say the wheel moves 120mm and the bottom mount moves say 40mm , is the rate of movement the same over the first 20mm of movement as the last 20mm. If not, is the rate rising or falling?

Based on that range of movement, what force is applied at the rear wheel say as it hits a bump or over a long undulation around a corner when it's also loaded up with centrifugal force? That will give you a starting point to calculate spring rates and damping rates.

For a cafe racer that will never get much past Starbucks or bike night, some of those calculations can be less than 110% accurate and still be OK, but this stuff all matters if you want to build a motorcycle. A bike is not a piece of art that is designed to only be ridden at photo shoots to show off a fab shop so they can sell T shirts or simpler work.

A motorcycle is an engineered product designed to work in a harsh dynamic environment where failure can result in severe pain or death.

Please check the attitude at the door, and engage brain before operating keyboard. We are not here to bust your chops or to blow smoke up your kilt. People are trying to be helpful.

There are a couple on well thought out 360 and 400 builds on here. Juniors Tin shock 400 is arguably the sharpest and embodies the Cafe Racer ethos.
 
preciate that Teazer!! Not to mention the binding effect and added leverage against the shock mounted that close to the pivot point. And as he stated bout the weak swingarm,I built a rectangular for mine because the factory was to weak for my big ass and the spring rate needed to make the bike handle the way i wanted. Wrenchtech's bike is aesthetically pleasing and they did a nice job of workmanship,but i don't agree with the shock geometry or the structural integrity of the rear suspension. teazer is a professional racer and I'm a professional fabricator(not welder but fabricator). And like he also stated,The attitude gets you nowhere,people will help you achieve a cool bike that actually handles if you listen.
 
I certainly wasn't trying to bring an attitude to the thread, it just seemed like an answer that was put forth as something dismissive and not informative. Given the explaination that you gave above, it certainly makes more sense to take a different tack and redraw the boundaries of possibility. I certainly am not an expert, however, my intentions were to weld medal on until it was structurally integral, and I wasn't going to take no for an answer.

I was expecting something like: "You would need a custom boxed swing-arm made from 3/16th medium steel to make that happen safely." I wasn't trying to be rude, or pull rank. It just wasn't the criticism I wanted to hear at all.

Perhaps I will try to triangulate the frame as suggested. If the bike above cannot be done safely, then, it cannot be done. I would like to ride it and live to tell the tale. I do like the design of the WTR bike very much though and am severely disappointed that it will not come to fruition.

Thanks for the help.
 
that wtr bike is a poorly conceived piece of shit,they have no clue about structural integrity,look how the stupid fuckers braced the swingarm they actually created a huge stress concentrated area just ahead of the axle plates
and those curved tubes may be :eek: good for looks but not for shit as far as adding rigidity/strength
there is so many things wrong with that late term abortion it gives me a headache, i dunno, i think maybe those guys should have their hands chopped off,before they hurt somebody
 
xb33bsa said:
i think maybe those guys should have their hands chopped off,before they hurt somebody

What?! You don't believe in the process of natural selection?

Why anyone would put this much effort into a lackluster bike like this completely escapes me. That engine is uninspired and has barely acceptable performance for street use. To try and turn it into something that resembles a race bike is fucking comical.
 
AlphaDogChoppers said:
What?! You don't believe in the process of natural selection?

Why anyone would put this much effort into a lackluster bike like this completely escapes me. That engine is uninspired and has barely acceptable performance for street use. To try and turn it into something that resembles a race bike is fucking comical.
Ha
 
Having said that, I like the build that you did. You obviously have excellent metalworking and fabrication skills. I especially liked the fork brace made out of Chevy connecting rods. 8)
 
AlphaDogChoppers said:
Having said that, I like the build that you did. You obviously have excellent metalworking and fabrication skills. I especially liked the fork brace made out of Chevy connecting rods. 8)
Preciate that ADC, it's also faster than the 900 cc Thruxton/scrambler n is good for the ton +
 
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