Honda CB400F Cafe, first attempt
- Thread starter 75hondacb400
- Start date
Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
wahvtec said:
It just proves they have morons in South Africa as well.
75hondacb400
Active Member
@tune-a-fish if you read the whole thing properly you would have seen me say I'm mocking up the whole rear end and shock mount and then taking it all in to a pro welder and he will redo it all with new pieces. As for the morons comment, if we really want to dig into each other we can open a separate topic or a Skype call to burl abuse about each others country.
@hillsy thanks for reading it properly and as you can see from above I will be remarking the whole section with the weld guy. I'm just trying to line up all the angles and then will remove the whole section from the frame and take it to the guy.
@jpmobius, comments have given me some new perspective, but mostly on people and not the bike. I will get it sorted and carry on forward.
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@hillsy thanks for reading it properly and as you can see from above I will be remarking the whole section with the weld guy. I'm just trying to line up all the angles and then will remove the whole section from the frame and take it to the guy.
@jpmobius, comments have given me some new perspective, but mostly on people and not the bike. I will get it sorted and carry on forward.
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it is not a matter of "lining up all the angles" you must understand exactly what the suspension is meant to do75hondacb400 said:
the design using linkage must be of identical geometry as it was on the donor.you need to do a lot of observing and testing of the donor machine first
spring off the shock and observe measure and plot the action of the design in this way youi could verify to an accurate standard whether or not you final construction mimics the action of the donor
it is still an incredibally stupid thing to do to an old vintage twin shock bike.especially a cb400 which does not have any hp to spare that is going to be needed to lug the extra weight and drag
its just as stupid as if the transportation dep let this kind of defiantly ignorant scab work be performed on an auto
what you are doing is akin to,say taking one wheel off a car and saying it should be fine with 3 and by the way the engine is moved to the rear seat to keep the driver awake alert and warm
it will never perform anywhere near it would in stock twin shok design and properly modded for performance
it doesn't matter how good a welder dude is when you present him with the steaming shitpile of grossly gapped joints he would be justified to run you out of his shop in hail of hand flung steel scrap
you cant have a good construction in a tubing structure with any much gaps at all.with what you have it would totally shift and pull out of any kind of position you hoped for
when the wel joint cools it shrinks when they are hidiously gapped as if a blind,retarded monkey did the work they shrink ,pull push and twist you can actually see it happening
after the "welding" which is a misnoamer it will be more like molten metal sculpting or casting in place the weldement
i cannot believe any welder could with clear train of thought help you put the death trap abortion you have on public roads its fucking criminal, people lives are in the balance with this criminally stupid scheme
some tubes will be loaded just static in compresion others in tension ,the con]struction will mhave all kinds of stresses built up something that does not happen much at all with closely fitting welded joints as long as a welding plan ,a has been employed
you dont even know what a weld joint must be like before presented to the weld shop
i repeat we would not want or allow idiots that are completely ignorant of fabrication principles ,not to mention the nuances of mechanical design ,do we let or vwant extremely poorly concieved absolute death trap hazard autos on the road or buses or trains ?
do we let just anybody build cars and license them ?
you idiots think you are gaming the system using parts of the stock frame so the rego is not scrutinized that is what really fucking burns me up
75hondacb400
Active Member
Would you suggest I scrap the single swing arm for a standard mono shock set up,
The welder guy said he would put the frame into autocab and work out all the stress points and if it will work. But he was confident it would with stand the stress and hold up.
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The welder guy said he would put the frame into autocab and work out all the stress points and if it will work. But he was confident it would with stand the stress and hold up.
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75hondacb400
Active Member
Thanks, great info and will be sure to add your name to the note I leave
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Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
75hondacb400 said:
Not a word about "country" the comment simply says that basically morons are everywhere.
That aside, those are not tack welds, those are attempts to weld. I have some experience here. I welded frames for factory Kawasaki as an example and if I ever seen that come in the rework room when I was fixing bad welds for them, I would of tossed that in the scrap bin.
I also have seen these builds turn around, so good luck, but listen to the advice.
dualero
Been Around the Block
Tune-A-Fish said:
Yeah dude, listen. Even if the advice is harsh. Is for your own good, and the others around you.
By the way, if your welder has seen your work already and did not say a word about it (gaps, tubes in all directions) he may not be a qualified one, or one that just want some easy bucks.
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Way to jump in and make a guy feel welcome guys.
XB you didn't read the part where he said he was just working out the locations of the gussets and tubing locations and the welder was going to re-do them from scratch when he is done. If this is the case none of the gaps etc matter at all. He is just trying to work out the geometry. Nothing wrong with that, he's learning and admitting to perusing experience to carry out the final design.
Welding is just welding. You can either do it or you can't. And if you can't, you learn. And if you want it done right while you're learning you take it to someone who is proficient which is what you are doing so no worries.
As far as adding monoshocks to old frames, if it's done right, who cares. In many instances it is done to lighten the sprung weight of the bike. The single sided swing arm probably negates that as the stock 400f parts are very light to begin with (sans the steel rear wheel). I am not sure what your VFR parts weigh but they look heavy comparatively. I am very pro "modify to your hearts desire". If that is the look you're going for then go at it and work the problems until they are no more. It's an exercise in learning if nothing else so carry on and learn from the mission at hand. Some people here would rather not sacrifice stock design and take the easy way out and upgrade the stock parts using factory designed geometry. Nothing wrong there. To completely re-engineer a design takes more effort, and arguably could generate greater rewards if successfully executed. For sure the task is much greater, but nothing cannot be achieved when you set your mind to it and teach yourself what it takes to produce a great machine.
As for the people on here who insist on being assholes whenever something comes along that they don't agree with, never will I understand why you feel it necessary to berate and put down a person who you have never met. They are motorcycles. Not one fucking one of you holds the title of "the keeper of the bikes". It is a sport and a hobby that anyone with ambition can be a part of. I can't for the life of me figure out what brings pleasure for a person to be a douche on the Internet. That's not how I choose to approach life, and I feel like if it were I would have ran off many people who have added loads of value to my life's experience. Good job, you're a guy on a keyboard who can fling insults. You'll fit right in with the rest of the 12 year olds on Facebook telling "your mom" jokes.
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XB you didn't read the part where he said he was just working out the locations of the gussets and tubing locations and the welder was going to re-do them from scratch when he is done. If this is the case none of the gaps etc matter at all. He is just trying to work out the geometry. Nothing wrong with that, he's learning and admitting to perusing experience to carry out the final design.
Welding is just welding. You can either do it or you can't. And if you can't, you learn. And if you want it done right while you're learning you take it to someone who is proficient which is what you are doing so no worries.
As far as adding monoshocks to old frames, if it's done right, who cares. In many instances it is done to lighten the sprung weight of the bike. The single sided swing arm probably negates that as the stock 400f parts are very light to begin with (sans the steel rear wheel). I am not sure what your VFR parts weigh but they look heavy comparatively. I am very pro "modify to your hearts desire". If that is the look you're going for then go at it and work the problems until they are no more. It's an exercise in learning if nothing else so carry on and learn from the mission at hand. Some people here would rather not sacrifice stock design and take the easy way out and upgrade the stock parts using factory designed geometry. Nothing wrong there. To completely re-engineer a design takes more effort, and arguably could generate greater rewards if successfully executed. For sure the task is much greater, but nothing cannot be achieved when you set your mind to it and teach yourself what it takes to produce a great machine.
As for the people on here who insist on being assholes whenever something comes along that they don't agree with, never will I understand why you feel it necessary to berate and put down a person who you have never met. They are motorcycles. Not one fucking one of you holds the title of "the keeper of the bikes". It is a sport and a hobby that anyone with ambition can be a part of. I can't for the life of me figure out what brings pleasure for a person to be a douche on the Internet. That's not how I choose to approach life, and I feel like if it were I would have ran off many people who have added loads of value to my life's experience. Good job, you're a guy on a keyboard who can fling insults. You'll fit right in with the rest of the 12 year olds on Facebook telling "your mom" jokes.
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75hondacb400
Active Member
Thanks for that dude, those are the comments I would have enjoyed getting from the start, but I guess if people don't piss you off then there will be no drive to prove them wrong.
For the weight of the rear end and gsxr front end, I did weigh everything and the new parts are maybe 2kg lighter, those old cb rims were seriously heavy.
I will keep cracking on and send updates,
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For the weight of the rear end and gsxr front end, I did weigh everything and the new parts are maybe 2kg lighter, those old cb rims were seriously heavy.
I will keep cracking on and send updates,
Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
I hope you make it work, man.
I built a similar project. Didn't catch all the flack for it, but it was certainly a challenge, and now a blast to ride.
For future reference, though, when you are tacking something on to look at placement, spot weld it. You'll save yourself a tremendous amount of time with an angle grinder in your hand. And, some of those places, an angle grinder isn't so easy to fit in there.
Look forward to seeing what you get done.
I built a similar project. Didn't catch all the flack for it, but it was certainly a challenge, and now a blast to ride.
For future reference, though, when you are tacking something on to look at placement, spot weld it. You'll save yourself a tremendous amount of time with an angle grinder in your hand. And, some of those places, an angle grinder isn't so easy to fit in there.
Look forward to seeing what you get done.
75hondacb400
Active Member
The reason I tacked it more than normal is, I kept moving the metal and then the angles would change,
Could you send me your build guide for you bike? Looks very cool
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Could you send me your build guide for you bike? Looks very cool
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Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
dualero
Been Around the Block
Kanticoy said:
Kanticoy, I can't agree with you more. We have to encourage people to do things right and not to scare them off.
But.
Don't you guys think that making this sort of project, your first project, is somewhat extremely ambitious as seen that 75hondacb400f does not have enough knowledge and practice in areas he is needed to? (welding, suspension layout, kinematics, stress risers, bike geometry, etc)
I might not be the best person to say this as I have not built a custom bike (yet) or been very long in the forum, but I sure know my fair share in those subjects, so I can be critical about it.
I don't want to be a douche by saying this, just being honest.
75hondacb400f, anyway keep it up as you have the mojo and are prone to learn and be corrected.
Cheers!
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billyp
Been Around the Block
J-Rod10 said:I hope you make it work, man.
I built a similar project. Didn't catch all the flack for it, but it was certainly a challenge, and now a blast to ride.
For future reference, though, when you are tacking something on to look at placement, spot weld it. You'll save yourself a tremendous amount of time with an angle grinder in your hand. And, some of those places, an angle grinder isn't so easy to fit in there.
Look forward to seeing what you get done.
Beautiful bike J-Rod. Love the tail and the exhaust
