Motorcycle Powered Kart: Father Daughter Project

[Dale]

By the way could you please post the model number which is stamped on the lower part of tghe engine. It will be something like 163fml or 169fml. Once i know the model number i can tell you how to make more power.

That would be great! I was kinda surprsied to see that number there based on the fact that this is a 粗楷体简 clone. Awesome!

 

[Dale]

http://www.greenfilterusa.com/find-filter-cone-cylinder.php

Great resource! Thanks!

Since you already have a cone shape, why not try to incorporate a conical filter as well?

Yeah that's what Maritime suggested as well. This probably would have been the simplest way to get this job done.
Something like this?

The pleats are of course a very good thing, but put into a straight cross section of your "air box" will offer a rather pitiful filter area despite the pleats.

I measured up this filter that I got yesterday, and for every 11.5mm (fin to fin), when flattened out comes to 32.2mm of filter material for that distance. So basically, you get like 300% more area from the distance. I'm sure that its not entirely 300% more efficient, as the air hits it at an angle, as opposed to head on, etc.

But lets put that momentarily to the side for now.


[list type=decimal]
[*]The stock filter is about 18000mm2.
[*]A radius of 55mm (which is what I've currently got in there) equates to an area of 9500mm2
[*]Half!
[*]But taking the pleats into consideration we get an area of 28500mm2, equating to a circle area with a radius of 95mm
[/list]

The filter media makes claims to have" High air flow with excellent filtration". Marketing BS aside, whatever the case, I'm sure its better than the 8mm thick sponge in the stock box.
So even if we factor in a 30% drop in efficiency due to the pleating, we still have the "same" area as the stock filter.

Thats my reasoning. WHATCHA THINK??

Also (and I am a big proponent of extra safety), the spark/flame arrestor screen is a bit of overkill unless you hot rod the motor. OEM's don't consider it necessary (they use cam profiles that make a flaming backfire unlikely), and certainly if you have a wire mesh screen as part of the actual filter it is redundant.

I was thinking primarily to keep debris out of the cone and away from the filter?
On that note, do you think drilling say a 4mm hole at the bottom of the cone just before the filter and not plugging it with a grommet etc will work fine for drainage and not affect anything?

Based on your design so far, I think I would consider a "scaled up" version that could contain a conical filter section that still shrouds it sufficiently to keep the inlet air at reasonable constant pressure. I would also offer that the value of "velocity stack" based inlet shapes has pretty limited value (it's still worth doing) from the perspective that when very close to the actual throttle (slide), it only gets a full head of steam when the throttle is completely or nearly wide open (and at big power revs). Since this most often is not the case (except when racing), it shouldn't drive the rest of your design process.

Thanks for this great info.

 

[Dale]

Just for kicks, I popped the filter body onto the carburetor too see what it looks like.

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

Severe badassery here.

 

[jpmobius]

That thing is bigger than I thought now that i see it scaled with the engine. Looks cool! And big enough to get a decent sized cone filter in there? Area is the most important consideration for air flow resistance so the bigger the better. In general, the pleats do not impact the flow (aside from gaining a lot of area which obviously is better). Twice the area yields half the resistance so as long as it is convenient go as big as you can - anything over stock will be an improvement (the difference in media not withstanding), though like Dohc pointed out, you likely won't notice anything dramatic (unless of course you were to restrict things below stock!) with the new system. Your sketch looks like the right thing to me. Drill that hole you mentioned and your done. You could put a pitch on the actual inlet to add a bit of weather protection but it would likely add more style points than solve a real problem. Even if the inlet is vertical even a big rain will likely not wet the filter as long as it has the drain.

 

[coyote13]

So badass. Looks like a blaster of sorts, pew pew!

 

[DohcBikes]

ok a couple short answers at lunch, I will expound later today.

1St off, these engines are not clones.

Lifan is a top quality engine manufacturer. They even supply engines for Some Hondas outside the u.s.

Your engine has the long stroke. This is good.

The 163fml bore is 63mm. A 169fml has a 69 mm bore and a shorter stroke.

The 169fml top end is a direct swap. It will increase displacement to 233cc

If you go this route, run a 28mm mikuni and a fat head pipe.

 

[DohcBikes]

I was not aware of some of that thank you. These engines still aren't clones of anything.

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

I was not aware of some of that thank you. These engines still aren't clones of anything.

When all that went down it was like Lifan had to prove something and the product im"proved" dramatically over time. I plan to buy one of the later power boxes for my Guy Cooper/Pastrana mini

 

[DohcBikes]

I've had nothing but great experience with the ten or so I've owned.

 

[Brodie]

Yep. I have not had any issues with them either. I even managed to ride a lifan powered quad off a cliff into a river and all I had to do to get her running again was clean the carb and change the oil.

 

[Dale]

1St off, these engines are not clones.
Lifan is a top quality engine manufacturer. They even supply engines for Some Hondas outside the u.s.
Your engine has the long stroke. This is good.
The 163fml bore is 63mm. A 169fml has a 69 mm bore and a shorter stroke.
The 169fml top end is a direct swap. It will increase displacement to 233cc
If you go this route, run a 28mm mikuni and a fat head pipe.

Hah! First time I've heard the name Lifan.
Did a bit of googling and yup, found the exact ATV.

Well I guess I kinda lucked out then, I really wasn't expecting much from this motor, based on its origin.
High level, this quad has not been loved by any means. It stood rusting outdoors, yet the spark plug was good, and the oil, which I doubt had been changed for a while (it didn't have rear wheels and the chain was rusted through), was very clean, not 'new' clean, like it had just been filled up for BS reasons , but pretty healthy looking. And all for $30!


So getting back to "hotting" up this motor ...

At this point I have ZERO idea regarding power to weight obviously.
Going back to original objectives: This is a kart for my 8 yr old daughter. It will have to be restricted in some way or another, based on her driving skill level. Its going to have a clutch and a "sequential" shifter. Shes only ever driven karts with throttle and brakes. So its going to be a learning curve for her.

Also, its important for her that it has 2 seats, holding 2 people. Again - more weight.

So, we very well may need to upgrade this little lump, but if not, and performance is "acceptable", then, this is certainly something to iterate on in the future, (which will be fun to do).

The one thing Im REALLY happy to hear, is that this is not a "closed system" for me. ie - no idea what it is, no idea where to get spares, no idea how to make it better.
AND ... that there are guys like DOHC, who have actual experience working on these motors.
:-D

 

[Dale]

While I'm still ratting about on the air filter scenario, (and thanks again for the all the kind words and info on that one!) I started looking into the exhaust system.

This is what it came with:

The muffler was welded straight onto the manifold by a previous owner. So I'm not sure if its OEM.

When I cut it off, the inner diameter of the inlet into the can turned out to be 26mm.

The inner diameter of the manifold is 32mm.

Its also pretty restricted:

Its also pretty bulky:

You see where I'm going with this? I'm really trying NOT to like it. :-D


______________________________________________________

PART 2

Got rid of the nasty.

Ive got this 125 cc Pitbike muffler.

I was hoping I could use it, but as with the intake stuff, Im also not an expert om the outlet stuff either.


So this is what we have:

CURRENT SETUP

PROPOSED SETUP (Using 32mm ID for the extension of course)

I guess another consideration is the proximity of the exhaust outlet to the intake of the filter. This is all pretty much as per the stock ATV, but of course, with the ATV, its not all open air around the two.
Ideally Id like to get the muffler closer to the motor, and avoid most of that extension. Thoughts?

 

[Dale]

The 169fml top end is a direct swap. It will increase displacement to 233cc

Holy crap, that's pretty significant. Is this something you figured out while owning /working on the bunch of them that you had? Pretty cool how modular they are then?

 

[dualero]

I had a geely CG125 "clone" (157FMI) when the 125 cylinder was done, I just went with a 62mm bore cylinder and piston kit, made for the CG150 "Chinese clone" that was a simple bolt on and made my bike 150cc.

I'll just leave this here for more info on the engine. Found it on mychinamoto.com forum.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200988120968?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Flowmaster for the big bore hehe:

Lighter version:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171246279903?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[farmer92]

This thing is sweeeeeeeeeeet looking.
all sorts of awesome going on here.
about 10 years ago or so, i had this little Chinese buggy with a GY6 clone in it.
It was fully capable of hauling 360lbs of 2 person at 35mph through a field, and we hit 45mph going down the road.
http://retailstore.mowerpartszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Carter_Brother_GSR_150_Owner_Parts_Manual.pdf
This thing was a blast, did doughnuts anywhere anytime.
this thread makes me want to go pull that thing out into the snow now.

 

[Dale]

@Tune-A-Fish: That stainless Flowmaster sure is purdy.

This thing is sweeeeeeeeeeet looking.

:-D

Disclaimer: Work in progress! This is currently a very broken kart, but thought it would be cool to share my progress.

"A" hung over my shoulders, baked a chocolate cake, and built an entire hotel in Minecraft (in which +-100 sheep are currently residing) while I was crunching away at CAD.

Got lots to figure out yet.

 

[Nj732port]

and the sheep hotel screen shots....? ;D ;D

 

[farmer92]

nice models, does your software also by any chance have a stress simulator built in?
I used autodesk inventor for several frame designs, and the fram simulator is an awesome tool.
Let's you apply forces anywhere, any way, shows you frame deformation, peak stresses etc...