My First Project... The ever changing face of a 1977 Honda CB400F

[Kanticoy]

Di a compression check on the motor to see if there is any leak. Cold should get you about 120 PSI or so. These bikes always make racket in the top end, that's just what they do. There is such thing as too much though. A compression check will at least isolate a valve seat or ring issue. If it checks out, you can eliminate those. Take off one of the rocker bolts on the head and turn the bike over with the kill switch off. Preferably on the left (drivers side) of the bike. You should get some oil leaking out. That let's you know that the top end is getting oil. When you check valve clearance, you are doing it by the manual, correct? They won't register if not read from the correct place through the timing cycle. Also remember that the pensioners mechanism on these bikes can get seized, so no matter how much you " adjust" the chain tension you may be doing nothing. If it is you can free it by pulling the plug bolt above the tension adjuster, loosening the adjuster bolt, and sticking a small screwdriver into the upper hole and tapping with a screwdriver. This should unseize the adjuster mechanism.

I have 3 of these bikes. They are my all time favorites, but the are quirky old girls!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[Laughter13]

Di a compression check on the motor to see if there is any leak. Cold should get you about 120 PSI or so. These bikes always make racket in the top end, that's just what they do. There is such thing as too much though. A compression check will at least isolate a valve seat or ring issue. If it checks out, you can eliminate those. Take off one of the rocker bolts on the head and turn the bike over with the kill switch off. Preferably on the left (drivers side) of the bike. You should get some oil leaking out. That let's you know that the top end is getting oil. When you check valve clearance, you are doing it by the manual, correct? They won't register if not read from the correct place through the timing cycle. Also remember that the pensioners mechanism on these bikes can get seized, so no matter how much you " adjust" the chain tension you may be doing nothing. If it is you can free it by pulling the plug bolt above the tension adjuster, loosening the adjuster bolt, and sticking a small screwdriver into the upper hole and tapping with a screwdriver. This should unseize the adjuster mechanism.

I have 3 of these bikes. They are my all time favorites, but the are quirky old girls!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

yup... i did check the valve clearances with the manual in hand. they all seemed good. I did do the trick with trying to free up the adjuster mechanism and it appeared to work for a bit, but as you can see in my previous post, we have a whole new issue to work through now. I need to somehow remove the sheered off bolt and will work through any other issues i see as i go.


Any suggestions on a walk through on getting at my dumb ass f up?

 

[Kanticoy]

I did the same thing. I ended up having to weld on a bolt to the shared head to get mine out. Sucks. In my experience, the easy outs suck, but its worth a try. One thing you can try that has worked for me before is to drill a hole in the center of the sheared bolt. Then tap it to a smaller bolt size. Now thread the smaller bolt into it gathered in jb weld. Let it dry overnight and pray it cones out!

 

[ktree]

according to Honda, the cam chain is "supposed" to outlast the engine and bike. I know people around here have said in general to replace them (maybe of you're going to race it), but why? I guess we could all go around and replace things we might not understand completely. Unless you have like 40k plus miles, save it for something else. What makes nasty running noises:
1: out of sync carbs
2: valve clearance adjustment
3: cam chain adjustment

2 and 3 are just about equal in prevalence.

Hose down the broken bolt with a product called "Freeze Off". Yes, sounds gimmicky, but the oil in the spray is unreal. It penetrates like nothing else. Use an easy out. Buy a bolt through McMaster-Carr or equivalent. Unless you are in a rush, do the work yourself. Not only is it satisfying, it provides you with the knowledge (and confidence) to do it again and to tackle other projects. It also provides a bond between you and your bike. Good luck and you can do it!

 

[teazer]

OK stop and breathe. The cam chain tensioner bolt tends to rust up on those bikes and the motor has to come out and be stripped if it has to be machined out.

BUT if the chain is just a little loose rather than slapping around like a mad thing, you could probably get away with riding it for a while and pull the motor in the fall when you have time to strip it and fix it. I'd clean and synch the carbs, set the timing and valve clearances and ride it. There's a small chance that the adjuster bolt will come out on its own in which case the noise will get worse quickly.

Replacing the tensioner and chain is a labor intensive job that you can do if you have the time and patience. No need to pay a mechanic to do it. I have never had enough money to pay a mechanic to do anything. That's not true. I has one change tires for me once because I was in an apartment with nowhere to work on bikes. Everything else I had to learn the hard way and wouldn't change that for the world.

 

[Laughter13]

OK stop and breathe. The cam chain tensioner bolt tends to rust up on those bikes and the motor has to come out and be stripped if it has to be machined out.

BUT if the chain is just a little loose rather than slapping around like a mad thing, you could probably get away with riding it for a while and pull the motor in the fall when you have time to strip it and fix it. I'd clean and synch the carbs, set the timing and valve clearances and ride it. There's a small chance that the adjuster bolt will come out on its own in which case the noise will get worse quickly.

Replacing the tensioner and chain is a labor intensive job that you can do if you have the time and patience. No need to pay a mechanic to do it. I have never had enough money to pay a mechanic to do anything. That's not true. I has one change tires for me once because I was in an apartment with nowhere to work on bikes. Everything else I had to learn the hard way and wouldn't change that for the world.

Appreciate the advise...

stopped by my mechanics yesturday to use his welder to fix a hole in my precious exhaust. Had him look at what i had done, and agree that I can probably ride a while with it the way it is. The valve clearances and carbs seem to be fine, according to him. I am getting a good amount of cam chain noise, and have a bit of a knock sound every now and again comming from the pistons. I need to do a compression test and kinda need to go through the top end (cam chain, rings, etc.) probably fall. He says to ride the shit out of it, and either fix it or sell it (because it will be obsolete soon... his words, not mine) by winter.

I do want to hold on to this bike due to its rareness and hope to keep it for a long time since its my first bike. Depending on how finances go, and whether or not i can find a warm place to work, i would like to go through the engine myself. As my cousin who lives in texas said to me (who has built two bikes), "Only way to learn in to jump into the fire".

Appreciate the encouragement, and apologize for lookin "scared" in the face of problems, I tend to hop on right after a "f" up and "vent" out through my posting.... The will is strong with this one guys, I am sure will need lots of help come next fall (or when things break of course).

 

[Laughter13]

So i started feeling lucky today after a good 2 hour ride... it is going to rain here in west Michigan for the next few days, so i decided to take a stab at removing the stripped cam chain adjuster screw.


Started out by grabbing the dremel and the smallest engraving bit i could find. My first thought was to try and dremel a straight line and grab a flathead screw driver and try to gently turn it out. Needless to say, this was very unsuccessful. Next, i carefully dremeled a "pre-pilot" hole with the engraver, then grabbed the smallest bit i had and created a pilot hole (since we are working with a 6mm bolt). Once i had a nice pilot hole set, I grabbed the "easy-out" bit (or reverse thread bit) and gently drilled in..... after a few seconds, it grabbed, my eyes opened a little, and then.... snap!


The "f-ing" reverse thread bit broke! !#@$$%@......


So now i have a reverse thread bit stuck in my cam chain tensioner bolt. Looking for any suggestions on what i should do now? My guess is to grab the dremel and start engraving my way through all the crap in there now.... but what happens if i push any of the metal shavings through? I know the bottom bolt, which is the one stripped, only holds the rod in place, but i am sure its not good to get metal shavings in there. The top bolt, which is perfectly fine, caps off the rod and springs in the automatic tensioner system.


If and when i get this thing out, I saw this guy to had a PO fix a stripped out cam chain adjuster bolt in a pretty sweet way... picture below. guy welded a 6mm nut on the casing and then used a standard 6mm bolt and another 6mm nut to lock it up.... pretty clean weld...

 

[bikeboy]

guy welded a 6mm nut on the casing and then used a standard 6mm bolt and another 6mm nut to lock it up.... pretty clean weld...

bummer laughter. hope you manage to sort it out soon.

that's a nice motor, but he seems to have another issue with No. 1 exhaust stud


cheers
ian

 

[Laughter13]

bummer laughter. hope you manage to sort it out soon.

that's a nice motor, but he seems to have another issue with No. 1 exhaust stud


cheers
ian

Didnt even notice that.... nice eye!

 

[Laughter13]

So i started feeling lucky today after a good 2 hour ride... it is going to rain here in west Michigan for the next few days, so i decided to take a stab at removing the stripped cam chain adjuster screw.


Started out by grabbing the dremel and the smallest engraving bit i could find. My first thought was to try and dremel a straight line and grab a flathead screw driver and try to gently turn it out. Needless to say, this was very unsuccessful. Next, i carefully dremeled a "pre-pilot" hole with the engraver, then grabbed the smallest bit i had and created a pilot hole (since we are working with a 6mm bolt). Once i had a nice pilot hole set, I grabbed the "easy-out" bit (or reverse thread bit) and gently drilled in..... after a few seconds, it grabbed, my eyes opened a little, and then.... snap!


The "f-ing" reverse thread bit broke! !#@$$%@......


So now i have a reverse thread bit stuck in my cam chain tensioner bolt. Looking for any suggestions on what i should do now? My guess is to grab the dremel and start engraving my way through all the crap in there now.... but what happens if i push any of the metal shavings through? I know the bottom bolt, which is the one stripped, only holds the rod in place, but i am sure its not good to get metal shavings in there. The top bolt, which is perfectly fine, caps off the rod and springs in the automatic tensioner system.


If and when i get this thing out, I saw this guy to had a PO fix a stripped out cam chain adjuster bolt in a pretty sweet way... picture below. guy welded a 6mm nut on the casing and then used a standard 6mm bolt and another 6mm nut to lock it up.... pretty clean weld...

Wanted to keep this out front and continue the question


"if i dremel out all the crap, how careful should i be about letting metal shavings push through?"
"how do i know i am at the point where i need to tear down the engine?"

 

[Laughter13]

Well... its been a while since i have been on. I toyed around with the idea of replacing the cam chain myself, and seeing what it would take to remove the stripped out bolt, but once i got down to the heads, i got really nervous. It got to the point where i was really worried i was going to destroy somthing else.

I spent most of the past month selling odds and ends around the house and saving money to do the unthinkable.... take it to a local mechanic. Now dont bag on me! Unlike all of you guys, i dont have a father, friend, brother or anything else who knows squat about motorcycles or mechanics for that matter. Nor did i ever hold a job in a shop somewhere or have any kind of informal or formal training on mechanics. The closest person i have to help is a cousin who lives 1000 miles away in Texas. So... either it was going to take me all summer to fix, or it was time to bite the bullet and spend some money so i could actually ride this summer.

I found the mechanic with several shops pointing me to the same guy in Grand Rapids, and he seems like a great guy with lots of experience. He has had the bike for about a week and is as worried as i am about removing the extractor/"easy-out" bit that broke off in there. I was hoping that he would take one look at it and know what to do, but who knows?

Since the bike has been at the mechanic, I took the opportunity to re-paint the tank and side covers, so here are a few pics of my progress:

Pic 1: is after lots and lots of sanding and bondo to smooth out the shotty work the PO did to dent in the tank
Pic 2: obviously after priming
Pic 3: after color and two coats of clear
Pic 4: after wet sanding and two more coats of clear

tonight will be final wet sanding and buffing.... gonna look like glass

 

[IanOberholtzer]

love that tank form

 

[bikeboy]

classy paint scheme

 

[Laughter13]

finally got the tank all sanded and polished out.... ended up glassy as hell and am really happy with it. This was my first automotive paint job ever, so the 14 hours of work i have put in to it are out weighed by a sense of pride in how quality it looks.

 

[IndieSol]

The paint looks fantastic. Excellent work. I just did my first paint job too. It's definitely an eye opener.

Also, I know what you're talking about on both the experience and the lack of people around to show you the ropes. When I picked up my Honda 360 about this time last year, I had never worked on a bike at all. I always had others do it, but with a mortgage and two kids, it just wasn't an option. Further, noone in my circle of friends or family rode or worked on motorbikes, so I spent a lot of late nights in the garage alone.

I liked the suggestion a few pages back about going to the AHRMA races or some other bike events near you and meet some people. After a bit of networking, you'll find that you have a lot more resources than you ever expected. It sounds like the "mechanic" you spoke with isn't all that interested in working on your "obsolete" bike. At the right events, you'll meet people who want to help, if for no other reason than to keep a rare classic like that out on the road. I think it was Teazer who even suggested a name of someone to seek out. I'd take that suggestion and run with it. You can only learn so much from a manual.

 

[bikeboy]

great work fella. You done very well for your first attempt.


ian

 

[jeffreyhardy]

the paint looks great man

 

[Laughter13]

The paint looks fantastic. Excellent work. I just did my first paint job too. It's definitely an eye opener.

Also, I know what you're talking about on both the experience and the lack of people around to show you the ropes. When I picked up my Honda 360 about this time last year, I had never worked on a bike at all. I always had others do it, but with a mortgage and two kids, it just wasn't an option. Further, noone in my circle of friends or family rode or worked on motorbikes, so I spent a lot of late nights in the garage alone.

I liked the suggestion a few pages back about going to the AHRMA races or some other bike events near you and meet some people. After a bit of networking, you'll find that you have a lot more resources than you ever expected. It sounds like the "mechanic" you spoke with isn't all that interested in working on your "obsolete" bike. At the right events, you'll meet people who want to help, if for no other reason than to keep a rare classic like that out on the road. I think it was Teazer who even suggested a name of someone to seek out. I'd take that suggestion and run with it. You can only learn so much from a manual.

Very very good point.... I have been trying for a while to get the right words to decribe my concerns with my new found mechanic, and you hit the nail right on the head. I actaully have marked all the events i could find online in my outlook calander just for the purpose of trying to go to events to begin to network. As soon as i get my baby back, i plan on finding more riders, mechanics and friends to ride with and learn from.

It hasnt been easy learning the ins and outs of a vintage bike like mine, but i have fallen in love with its uniqueness and absolute ability to translate the feeling of freedom on the road. I have to constantly remind myself that developing this bike into my dream will be like climbing a mountain, one step at a time....

Really appreciate the cudos for the paint job from everyone, cant wait to see the parts back on the bike! Hopefully, now that i am getting the engine sorted, i can move on to the other details that i am craving to clean up!

 

[jeffreyhardy]

Very very good point.... I have been trying for a while to get the right words to decribe my concerns with my new found mechanic, and you hit the nail right on the head. I actaully have marked all the events i could find online in my outlook calander just for the purpose of trying to go to events to begin to network. As soon as i get my baby back, i plan on finding more riders, mechanics and friends to ride with and learn from.

It hasnt been easy learning the ins and outs of a vintage bike like mine, but i have fallen in love with its uniqueness and absolute ability to translate the feeling of freedom on the road. I have to constantly remind myself that developing this bike into my dream will be like climbing a mountain, one step at a time....

Really appreciate the cudos for the paint job from everyone, cant wait to see the parts back on the bike! Hopefully, now that i am getting the engine sorted, i can move on to the other details that i am craving to clean up!

Well said man that's why I am building my bike!

 

[Laughter13]

so... pretty pissed off today.... but let me start at the begining:

about 5 weeks ago i dropped my bike of at the mechanic that i spoke of in earlier posts. As stated before, he looked a little worried about removing the extractor bit from the cam chain tensioner locking bolt. I spoke with him at about week 2 and he said he had finally gotten all the parts in from California and would let me nkow how the bit removal goes. I was very patient and didnt bother him for 2 more weeks with no word from him. Last week i sent an email on Monday, and then again on friday to check in. No response.... This morning, 5 weeks since i dropped the bike off, he sends me an email from his iphone that said, "Can't get the easy out you broke in there out ...I'm out of ways to remove it ..need to know the next move". So I immediately call him and and say hi.... its dave.... just got your email... first words out of his mouth are... can i call you right back?... i say sure.

Its now been an hour since he said that, so i am on here to vent and see what you guys think?

I suppose there are two ways out of this:

1)Tell him to leave the bike the way it is right now, which i assume he has the heads off and everything apart, and find a machine shop to try and remove the extractor bit and bolt. Then return to said mechanic and have him finish the cam chain work.

2) Tell him to replace the cam chain and tensioner and put it all back togeather, and then find a new mechanic or machine shop that can remove the bolt and extractor bit. ( a bit more expensive of an option, since i will have to pay for someone to tear into the engine twice.)

Always appreciate an input you guys have!