Norton makes me horny.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

No doubt that for 20 grand I could build exactly what I want, but could I finance that bike? And then the reliability and newness of the bike would be nice. Don't get me wrong. I'm built not bought to the core. But one day I'd like to know what it's like to own a new(ish) bike. And that is the bike I'd like to bust my new bike cherry. Of course I'd do a lot of mods to it though, because I'm like Dakine... I'd never get caught wearing the same dress as some other girl...

I concede the financing part but you could totally find an 05-08 triumph for about 4k then dump 16,000$ on it and have something modern, custom and head and shoulders better in a quantifiable way.

knock that nortons price in line with the triumph and im in but 20k is a bit to much for a bike that has next to no dealer support, aftermarket or the miles underneath it to work out any problems.

remove the Norton name and would you still drop 20k on it?

 

[Ogri]

its all very well built. got excellent reviews in motorcyclist, but hard shifting due to shift lever angle.


but... i will never see it as a cafe racer. would i ride it, hell yes. but i kind of wish that it was styled differently, so that some rich fuck couldnt buy one and claim he owns a cafe racer. i love the bike as much as i hate it...

Please, tell me, what exactly is wrong with having money? You do realize that most people that have money, worked tirelessly to be in a position to make it. I make good money and could afford one of these bikes if I saw fit. Does that make me a "rich fuck"? Or, do I have to actually own one to be a "rich fuck"? Can one have money and not be a "fuck"?
This current attitude that people with money are evil is ignorant, as is the thought that a bike has to fit a cookie cutter image in order to be a "cafe racer". It's getting tiresome.

Rocan, this is not an attack on you. It is simply an observation of the attitude I see creeping into a site that in the past was open to all, not just those with out means and dual shocks.
For that matter, judging by the careers that our members say they do, I'd say that more of our members than not have the means to have what ever bike they want, they simply choose to build their own. This site is full of "rich fucks". Now is that the way to talk about your fellow members?

 

[Rocan]

ogri... i think i came off a bit wrong. i see nothing wrong with wealth... i only see an issue with wealth when people use their wealth to buy nice things, and then claim that they put in all the work into that thing.

sure, the person had to work their ass off to get the money to buy that item, but if i were to see a beautiful bike (or anything for that matter) and the owner and builder were standing next to it, i would shake the builders hand first rather than the owners.

my parents have money. my dad especially got that money from working day in and day out, and working hard. if he wanted to, he could drop thousands of dollars on people to do his work for him, but he doesnt. theres more pride in being able to show off what youve done with your own hands, your own time and thought, then what you paid someone else to do.

i see bikes, cars, anything, as something that should be representative of a persons character. i simply cannot understand how someone can pay someone else to make something that looks good, because what looks good is most often a highly personal thing.

in short, having seen my father work himself up from the bottom, i hate anyone who takes someone elses hard labor and claims it as their own. anyone can make money; only the most dedicated and hardworking of people can make something as beautiful as a hand built motorcycle.

 

[boomshakalaka]

remove the Norton name and would you still drop 20k on it?

bingo.

also, I just think that if Im going to buy a new bike, Id much rather get a NEW bike. A duc 848 msrp is 13k, a 1198 is like 15.5k or something... I understand the appeal of harleys, but I just could never justify paying that much for a bike that (comparatively) handles like crap, is slow, and is just style over substance. Now I know the norton handles way better, is much faster, and depending who you talk to its much cooler. But none the less compared to modern bikes, you end up paying more for a slower, less flickable bike. And while they are in different categories, I think its hard to argue that the norton is objectively cooler than a 1198..

 

[boomshakalaka]

ogri... i think i came off a bit wrong. i see nothing wrong with wealth... i only see an issue with wealth when people use their wealth to buy nice things, and then claim that they put in all the work into that thing.

sure, the person had to work their ass off to get the money to buy that item, but if i were to see a beautiful bike (or anything for that matter) and the owner and builder were standing next to it, i would shake the builders hand first rather than the owners.

my parents have money. my dad especially got that money from working day in and day out, and working hard. if he wanted to, he could drop thousands of dollars on people to do his work for him, but he doesnt. theres more pride in being able to show off what youve done with your own hands, your own time and thought, then what you paid someone else to do.

i see bikes, cars, anything, as something that should be representative of a persons character. i simply cannot understand how someone can pay someone else to make something that looks good, because what looks good is most often a highly personal thing.

in short, having seen my father work himself up from the bottom, i hate anyone who takes someone elses hard labor and claims it as their own. anyone can make money; only the most dedicated and hardworking of people can make something as beautiful as a hand built motorcycle.

I think when you boil down how you feel about this, its the fact that someone with tons of money can just "buy a lifestyle." While the person who had to piece their bike together and work on it for countless hours in their spare time has paid their dues and they generally will have more respect for the lifestyle. Its understandable for people who build cafes to get worked up when they feel that cafes are going the way of the chopper. But you just have to remember that not everyone who buys instead of builds is a poser.

 

[Swagger]

It's odd the direction that a thread will take, and more so regarding this stunning bike.....and if you're honest with yourself...it is. What you're looking at IS the culmination of a man's HARD WORK. If you think this pooped out of some rich guys ass you're so wrong as to be comically inept at living and should go back to the rock you germinated under. Consider the countless hours that went into the creation of this thing.....just consider for a moment.

This isn't the product of a massive industrial machine like....well....ANY mainstream motorcycle manufacturer. This is a pretty pure distillation of someone's dream, lovingly laid over a form that was conceived 50+ years ago and for whatever reasoning you choose to align yourself....that form has endured. This came out of a small operation, not some multi-billion dollar mega-corporation.

For this to be a less expensive offering you'd have to crap them out in numbers at a minimum....say Hinckley Triumph quantities. You'd have to use less developed suspension pieces....those Ohlins bits....yeah they don't come cheap. The engine would likely have to be sourced from someone else, if you think engine developement is cheap you're fooling yourself. You'd have to give up fit and finish and exclusivity. Period. You want this at a mainstream price? Be prepared to drool and rave over a mainstream motorcycle. What you see in these pictures is not a mainstream, Ma & Pa Kettle offering and to weight your commentary against such is nothing more than patently silly. You get difficult to quantify qualities that run along the same vein as a Ferrari Modena or a Spyker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyker_Cars). Take that Ferrari badge off...is the car any less than before? I think not. Never heard of a Spyker? Does that make it any less badass.....oh fuck no. No, this motorcycle could have a badge that said Joe Snuffy and it would still be recognizable as a really nice largely hand made piece of ridable art, an homage. Does it hurt that it carries the Norton name....no way. The fellows who purchased the name have every right to paste it all over this thing if they see fit....they own the name.

As well......who THE FUCK gives two shits what some simpering moron wants to label a purposeful god-damned motorcycle? Seriously aren't we all sick of it yet? ....are we really that fucking pedantic? Really? Before anyone's panties get in a twist.....and they will (my flame proof undies are on so blast away, I'll clear out a section of my inbox for you) .... tell me how this veers away from the "Cafe Racer" ethos? Hmm....let's see:
>Low bars and rear sets? Check!
>Hunkering, aggressive stance? Check!
>Performance tuning of the engine and chassis? Check!
>A decided absence of cloying plastic bodywork? CHECK!
>Can you see thru the motherfucker? Check!
>Can you easily identify the major componentry and their basic function (disregard if you ARE a moron): Check!
>can you go fast on it? Check!

The only thing I see this lacking is a kickstarter. Damn. I feel slighted......

I need more coffee

 

[boomshakalaka]

It's odd the direction that a thread will take, and more so regarding this stunning bike.....and if you're honest with yourself...it is. What you're looking at IS the culmination of a man's HARD WORK. If you think this pooped out of some rich guys ass you're so wrong as to be comically inept at living and should go back to the rock you germinated under. Consider the countless hours that went into the creation of this thing.....just consider for a moment.

This isn't the product of a massive industrial machine like....well....ANY mainstream motorcycle manufacturer. This is a pretty pure distillation of someone's dream, lovingly laid over a form that was conceived 50+ years ago and for whatever reasoning you choose to align yourself....that form has endured. This came out of a small operation, not some multi-billion dollar mega-corporation.

For this to be a less expensive offering you'd have to crap them out in numbers at a minimum....say Hinckley Triumph quantities. You'd have to use less developed suspension pieces....those Ohlins bits....yeah they don't come cheap. The engine would likely have to be sourced from someone else, if you think engine developement is cheap you're fooling yourself. You'd have to give up fit and finish and exclusivity. Period. You want this at a mainstream price? Be prepared to drool and rave over a mainstream motorcycle. What you see in these pictures is not a mainstream, Ma & Pa Kettle offering and to weight your commentary against such is nothing more than patently silly. You get difficult to quantify qualities that run along the same vein as a Ferrari Modena or a Spyker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyker_Cars). Take that Ferrari badge off...is the car any less than before? I think not. Never heard of a Spyker? Does that make it any less badass.....oh fuck no. No, this motorcycle could have a badge that said Joe Snuffy and it would still be recognizable as a really nice largely hand made piece of ridable art, an homage. Does it hurt that it carries the Norton name....no way. The fellows who purchased the name have every right to paste it all over this thing if they see fit....they own the name.

As well......who THE FUCK gives two shits what some simpering moron wants to label a purposeful god-damned motorcycle? Seriously aren't we all sick of it yet? ....are we really that fucking pedantic? Really? Before anyone's panties get in a twist.....and they will (my flame proof undies are on so blast away, I'll clear out a section of my inbox for you) .... tell me how this veers away from the "Cafe Racer" ethos? Hmm....let's see:
>Low bars and rear sets? Check!
>Hunkering, aggressive stance? Check!
>Performance tuning of the engine and chassis? Check!
>A decided absence of cloying plastic bodywork? CHECK!
>Can you see thru the motherfucker? Check!
>Can you easily identify the major componentry and their basic function (disregard if you ARE a moron): Check!
>can you go fast on it? Check!

The only thing I see this lacking is a kickstarter. Damn. I feel slighted......

I need more coffee

well said. I still am not sure I could ever see myself buying this bike, but you make a strong point. And I definitely agree that this should, without a doubt, be classified as a cafe racer.

 

[CresentSon]

I don't care who you are, how much you paid, how much you built, what manufacturer made your power plant, or what mods and goodies you got.

If you're willing to loose the lables, I'm willing to ride.

Thats the difference. I'm not trashing your bolt on cafe or your hand built one off, and I'm willing to ride with those who are open minded enough to ride with me. My sole issue is with those who prejudge or discriminate based on make, model, or displacment.

Unlike men, all bikes aren't created equal, but does that really matter? Rich, poor, built, or bought... I'm just not dropping 20 large on something I didn't gt the oppourtunity to build myself. The ride that is buiding something is as important to me as riding the final product.

 

[Kanticoy]

Okay, I've been holding off on posting back on this thread because plain and simple I think that this example is about as close to an affordable cafe out there that performs as well as it looks. I personally love the bike.

I am not wealthy. In fact I am about as middle class as it gets. I own my own home, and I payed my own car off. I purchase my own groceries, pay my own insurance, buy my own tools pay taxes, utilities, and the occasional date night with the wife. My paramedic salary allows me to do those things. I bust my ass to get them. I also love my shop time. I feel very blessed to be able to build with my hands what I see in my mind's eye. I am limited though. I don't fabricate forks. I don't build engines from raw materials. I don't forge wheels, springs, tires, or whatever. I build old bikes because I can afford them. I paid $200 for Gretta. I have a few thousand more in her now. I made something to be proud of out of what I envisioned and what I could afford. I did not however create the best of the best anything. She's light and quick. She's nimble and looks good to me, but she is not a competitive racer.

You get a lot for 20k. You get a one of a kind motor, frame, top of the line suspension, and a frame and a name that carries more history than most things. You aren't paying for superfluous chrome or logos, you are paying for performance over style. I would challenge any of you to do what norton has done for that price. I wish I could!

I admit, I am a glutton for punishment when it comes to old bikes. They were flawed. They need things fixed to make them perform. I enjoy that. It is just kind of shitty to me to see us condemn anything innovative due to our idiosynchracies. I love to build and modify. I always will. But dammit, we are only modifying, we are not truly building, so why do we have to get all holier than thou and crack on things that don't fit our little molds. Let's be diverse and appreciate beauty. I don't come here to flame or be flamed. I come here for like company.

When we lose our eye for beauty and inspiration you might as well call us a religious zealot or a racist because we have lost sight of what's important. I love you guys, and i love your relationship with grease, but don't get stuck in a pigeonhole.

Thanks Swagger for saying what I couldn't.

 

[boomshakalaka]

well said kiley. I hope I didnt come across as trashing this bike. I think its a really awesome cycle, and youre right, the price is not bad for the components present. While I probably will never buy one, when I pull up next to one at a light I sure as hell will have an ear to ear grin in appreciation of how awesome it is.

 

[midnightcafe]

I hope the Norton line makes a comeback, the new owner seems hopeful to make it a quality, hand built motorcycle company. And the Commando stands out as the best cafe racer of its day IMO. Can't wait to see one at the local show ;D

 

[Rocan]

lots of well said stuff here.

my problem isnt with the bike; its a beautiful piece. as said, lots of hard work went into it.

my problem is that anyone can go and buy one. just bugs me a little is all. yes; the cafe-chopper thing gets on my nerves a bit. guess well just have to all build trackers from now on.

 

[xcaptainxbloodx]

You get a lot for 20k. You get a one of a kind motor, frame, top of the line suspension, and a frame and a name that carries more history than most things. You aren't paying for superfluous chrome or logos, you are paying for performance over style. I would challenge any of you to do what norton has done for that price. I wish I could!

I disagree.

you get a low number modern re-make of the 70s commando motor which while being an amazing re-vamp of a once great motor is not one off, same with the frame. you get an amazing suspension but far from top of the line ( ohlins forks can be had for about 1k, another ~1k for the rear, top of the line ohlins forks are incredibly hard to track down and prices never are mentioned). and as far as performance over style...that is absolutely incorrect. the entire bike is built around style and then engineered to be good "for what it is". the new BMW s1000RR fully loaded comes in around 18k and even the bare bone 14k model would ride circles around this bike.

you are paying for a low number bike (and all the pros and cons that provides) with a historic name first, a performance motorcycle second. Thats the problem I have with this bike (which I admit is entirely personal preference). If someone tooled up to go on a ride on one of these things I would be stoked as all hell to watch the thing go, its a beautiful and very capable machine, I just dont see 20k worth of bike in it.

 

[midnightcafe]

I disagree.

you get a low number modern re-make of the 70s commando motor which while being an amazing re-vamp of a once great motor is not one off, same with the frame. you get an amazing suspension but far from top of the line ( ohlins forks can be had for about 1k, another ~1k for the rear, top of the line ohlins forks are incredibly hard to track down and prices never are mentioned). and as far as performance over style...that is absolutely incorrect. the entire bike is built around style and then engineered to be good "for what it is". the new BMW s1000RR fully loaded comes in around 18k and even the bare bone 14k model would ride circles around this bike.

you are paying for a low number bike (and all the pros and cons that provides) with a historic name first, a performance motorcycle second. Thats the problem I have with this bike (which I admit is entirely personal preference). If someone tooled up to go on a ride on one of these things I would be stoked as all hell to watch the thing go, its a beautiful and very capable machine, I just dont see 20k worth of bike in it.

people are forgetting that this is a low volume, hand built motorcycle. I have to disagree with you, this IS a performance motorcycle FOR WHAT IT IS- a parallel twin. Anyone can buy a cheap inline four go-fast machine, but it lacks the character of a twin. Look at Ducati-you spend a lot more $ for a bike that is down on power per cc compared to inline fours. Why shoud this be different for a parallel twin? 85 horsepower for a 961cc motor sounds impressive, espcially for a first generation release. I doubt there is another parallel twin in the market that could even touch this motorcycle. Yes, it does come with quality components-brembo brakes, Ohlins shocks. But would the bike really benefit from using the most expensive equipment you mention? Sounds to me that it would be like installing carbon fiber disc brakes on a cb450, it would be excessive given the limitations of the motorcycle performance.

everyone has their opinion on what a cafe racer is and what it isn't, and this could stretch on for a while. If cafe racer's aren't the least bit about form, then why the hell are we so concerned with styling our motorcycles like them? Hell, more than half the "cafe racers" I've seen on this site are mere cosmetic upgrades that detract from the functionality engineered into them (why do you install clubmans yet leave the footpegs in the same position? AAAAAAARGHHHH!!) So it seems to me that a majority of people do pay attention to the appearance of their motorcycles.

 

[m357.5]

xcaptain...... same can be said of the Ducati MH rep....or the entire DS engined Monster line, or the Triumph Bonnie for that matter. It's built to a specific theme to inspire the glory days of the past, style over outright performance. I dont care how fast a 1098 is nor a S1000RR, its totaly irelevent. I cant use all the performance of a CB350 without pissin off the cops so what does it really matter how fast an S1000RR or a 961 Norton gets around Willow Springs or Laguna ?

Norton is still investing money/development into the NRV588 program, a moden superbike unlike any current offering from ANY company. If you want modern performance and EXCLUSIVE wait for the NRV to come into production.

The 961 isnt built as, nor is it implied by Norton, to be a top level superbike, so why treat it as such ? I myself would be more than happy to peel off the green backs if I had em' for one....a BMW S1000RR has absolutely ZERO appeal for this guy.

 

[Swagger]

As well, while the latest engine and chassis bear a fair family resemblance to previous iterations, my understanding is that parts will not interchange.

That make'm pretty one-off don't you think? It's like saying that a Ducati 1198 v-twin is just the same as a Hardly, or a Kohler.

 

[Basement rat]

If I had the cash I would buy a new Challenger or 20 year old Viper... Does that make me any less of a gear head if Im a little tired of rattling around every day in my 76 D100? understanding that it will NEVER perform like any new vehicle?

Again with the Challenger, People say "why not buy an old one?" Warranty is nice, reliablity and then I follow by asking if they have ever driven 1000km/ 600 miles STRAIGHT at a time in an archaic vehicle such as my truck...

I lust for a Viper and Challenger. I respect the heratige of muscle cars from the 60's and 70's and want a hand full of old'ens too but I aint Jay Leno...

Same for the Norton and HD's I suppose. Except the Norton has modern tech in it.

 

[xcaptainxbloodx]

As well, while the latest engine and chassis bear a fair family resemblance to previous iterations, my understanding is that parts will not interchange.

That make'm pretty one-off don't you think? It's like saying that a Ducati 1198 v-twin is just the same as a Hardly, or a Kohler.

your definition is different than mine. one-off, to me, means ONE-off. totally custom, even if you made another one it wouldent be exactly the same.

these are absolutely a customized frame but they are produced identical to one another.

 

[xcaptainxbloodx]

xcaptain...... same can be said of the Ducati MH rep....or the entire DS engined Monster line, or the Triumph Bonnie for that matter. It's built to a specific theme to inspire the glory days of the past, style over outright performance. I dont care how fast a 1098 is nor a S1000RR, its totaly irelevent. I cant use all the performance of a CB350 without pissin off the cops so what does it really matter how fast an S1000RR or a 961 Norton gets around Willow Springs or Laguna ?

Norton is still investing money/development into the NRV588 program, a moden superbike unlike any current offering from ANY company. If you want modern performance and EXCLUSIVE wait for the NRV to come into production.

The 961 isnt built as, nor is it implied by Norton, to be a top level superbike, so why treat it as such ? I myself would be more than happy to peel off the green backs if I had em' for one....a BMW S1000RR has absolutely ZERO appeal for this guy.

I agree, I was disagreeing with the fellow I quoted claiming it as a performance OVER style bike. It isnt, and thats why you alike the bike and at the same time why I dislike the price of the bike.

when it gets down to it I guess my problem is that if I wanted a stylized beauty for 20k I would want it to be MY vision, not a low production re-make (even if it is a badass one like the norton )and if I wanted a performance bike I would drop a bit over half the money and get a much better bike. Truth is,for 20k I(we) could probably make a prettier cafe bike (or even have one made for us) to ride around on and a super capable track bike and still have a few bucks left over.

 

[newguyj]

This thread started of great and became kinda "gay" in a socio-political-classist-blah-blah-blah way.

The emotions, ideas, expressed are egocentric on all sides...

You all have the right to your points of view stop apologizing...it's okay to be whoever/whatever
you are be that a "rich fuck" and "middle class ass" or "po bastard" if you are trust fund baby or one
check away from being homeless..SO WHAT. YOU ARE ALL ON DTT BECASUE YOU SHARE AN INTEREST IN SIMILAR ASPECTS OF MOTORCYCLING.....PERIOD.

Time for a group hug and beer.

Is the Norton Cafe HOT - CHECK
Will it draw "rich fucks" and "posers" - CHECK
Are wealth and class an undying issue in AMERICA - CHECK
Is a '70s HEMI better the '00s Hemi - CHECK
Do old bikes and cars have short comings vs their modern clones - Dbl CHECK

Do what works for you and give the next guy the same respect you seek in return.