Not only my first etc etc! - Exhaust Fabrication Done! Pics!

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

if your getting spark and fuel, and compression is fine, yet she still wont start, coils are the problem. reason is the coils dont put out the same voltage they used to and because of this they have spark out of the motor, but when they are in the motor the compression causes the coils to not deliver enough volts to have the sparks jump the gap. closing the gap on the spark plugs will tell you if this is the problem; if the bike starts then, then its definitely bad coils.

you can use most any coils... the dynas are worth the money from what i hear.

I know the dynas are a quality product, but Im pretty sure that Ill get a much stronger (compared to stock) spark from xs650 coils, so while its not top of the line, it is an upgrade. Also I am running two 6v batteries linked in series to get them to 12v, I think they are meant for backup emergency lighting power, not for motorcycles, so I am a lil bit worried that they are my weak point. I just bought a trickle charger though, and Im going to make sure they are fully charged, and give it another go.

 

[Rocan]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

I know the dynas are a quality product, but Im pretty sure that Ill get a much stronger (compared to stock) spark from xs650 coils, so while its not top of the line, it is an upgrade. Also I am running two 6v batteries linked in series to get them to 12v, I think they are meant for backup emergency lighting power, not for motorcycles, so I am a lil bit worried that they are my weak point. I just bought a trickle charger though, and Im going to make sure they are fully charged, and give it another go.

as long as your magneto is in good condition it should start even if batteries are "weak". XS650 coils will be a big upgrade over stock. go for them.

 

[Kanticoy]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

Hey Boom, Bosch coils for VWs are great for bikes. Troy uses them on Beat the Clock. They're cheap and WAY more powerful than stock. You can get other brands besides Bosch, but those are the popular ones. Here's an example. Just make sure you get the 12v version and you're golden. Pick them up for $25 each new or so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-BLUE-COIL-BOSCH-VW-BUG-BUS-THING-AND-OTHERS_W0QQitemZ270559685088QQcmdZViewItemQQptZOther_Vehicle_Parts?hash=item3efe9d29e0#ht_500wt_1182

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

Hey Boom, Bosch coils for VWs are great for bikes. Troy uses them on Beat the Clock. They're cheap and WAY more powerful than stock. You can get other brands besides Bosch, but those are the popular ones. Here's an example. Just make sure you get the 12v version and you're golden. Pick them up for $25 each new or so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-BLUE-COIL-BOSCH-VW-BUG-BUS-THING-AND-OTHERS_W0QQitemZ270559685088QQcmdZViewItemQQptZOther_Vehicle_Parts?hash=item3efe9d29e0#ht_500wt_1182

Those look good, but I think Ill just wait on mikes to get the 24$ ones in stock since I know they will easily fit under the tank by fabricating a very simple bracket.

And ya, rocan, I figured the battery wasnt the issue, but I needed a trickle charger anyways, and now I can eliminate it as a possible cause. Hopefully its done charging by now.. Ill try the trick of shortening the plug gap to see if the coils are for sure the issue.

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

on the third set of coils that I tried I am finally getting a nice blue spark. But I think what rocan said about having a spark that looks good out of the cyl but under compression not being strong enough maybe the case still. My timing is spot on, I definitely have fuel too (it actually ignited in one of the pipes.. now if I could just get it to ignite in the cyl!) and so if it isnt the coils (which like I said, it still may be) then the only thing I can think of is the valves. I did set the clearances for the valves, but Ive never done that before so I dont know if Im way off, but the fact that I got gas through to the exhaust seems to rule that out, right?

 

[88]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

Hi Boom, If you haven't already, get hold of a gauge to check your compression or at least put your finger over the plug hole and if it doesn't push your finger off check the engine is in the right phase. I had the same problems and my engine was 180' out of phase ie I had the TDC upside down (hey what can I say? I live in the southern hemisphere) Good luck and just keep crossing possibles off the list until she fires.

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

Hi Boom, If you haven't already, get hold of a gauge to check your compression or at least put your finger over the plug hole and if it doesn't push your finger off check the engine is in the right phase. I had the same problems and my engine was 180' out of phase ie I had the TDC upside down (hey what can I say? I live in the southern hemisphere) Good luck and just keep crossing possibles off the list until she fires.

That definitely could be it, that could explain why Im not even getting a sputter, but then eventually I get a backfire out the exhaust. Ive gotta get up in the morning, so Im gonna call it a night now, but Ill check to see if my timing is off by 180° tomorrow.

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

ok, so 88 was spot on, my timing coils are firing at the end of the exhaust stroke, instead of at the end of the compression stroke. But now Im confused.. how do I fix this? There is a little bolt on the end of the cam, do I simply loosen that and manually adjust the timing lobe, turning it 180°? It was quite a long time ago that I assembled the motor, so my memory is a bit foggy.

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [TRYING TO GET HER RUNNING, HELP!!!]

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well.. ok.. it sputtered then died... but it fired! I just sprinted out of the garage, into the house, and straight to my computer to post this.. I seriously cant remember the last time that Ive been this excited!

 

[VonYinzer]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!!]

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME
Way to go Boom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sxecafe]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!!]

way to go man!

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!!]

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME
Way to go Boom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks man! I just went back out, and Im getting her to start pretty easily, 2 or 3 kicks at the most, but Im not getting her to idle. I have the idle screws at 1 1/2 turns out, but that was just a guess, Ill take a look at the manual and see what it suggest. Im also running an open exhaust and velocity stacks, so my jetting (stock rebuild kit) is probably way lean. Anything else I should look for?

edit: shell run as long as I give her some throttle, but just wont hold an idle alone.

edit2: ok with the idle mixture screws 4 1/2 turns out and the idle speed screws almost all the way in the bike will gives me a rough idle, so ya, def seems like I just need to figure out my final plans for the exhaust, get the done and then jet the carbs appropriately. Anyways, Im gonna go wire in a kill switch... I was overjoyed that the bike was idleing, then it occured to me that I had a problem, I didnt know how to turn the bike off! I ended up disconnecting the battery, but Id prefer to have a switch next time :-D

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!!]

video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzdnKMBeupc

and to think, my neighbors were probably annoyed by the occasional angle grinder, or the loud music..

 

[tweakin]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!! VIDEO!!]

nice work boom. I really dig the flame shooting out of the lower pipe towards the end of the vid.

 

[dcmspikes]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!! VIDEO!!]

nice work. great feeling to hear it even attempt to run. almost done

 

[88]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!! VIDEO!!]

Sweet bro.... That 180 shit had me pulling my hair out on my bike too but once she fired up all was forgiven. Now comes the hard part! TAKE YOUR TIME with the rest of the build, remember the last thing you did before you started trying to get her running and start back there. Resist the temptation to spread tread all down your street, wait until you have her tuned and buttoned up, trust me ( I still walk my street looking for nuts and bolts that have rattled off from mid-night virgin runs). Well done and great to hear her running!

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!! VIDEO!!]

Sweet bro.... That 180 shit had me pulling my hair out on my bike too but once she fired up all was forgiven. Now comes the hard part! TAKE YOUR TIME with the rest of the build, remember the last thing you did before you started trying to get her running and start back there. Resist the temptation to spread tread all down your street, wait until you have her tuned and buttoned up, trust me ( I still walk my street looking for nuts and bolts that have rattled off from mid-night virgin runs). Well done and great to hear her running!

haha, ya I definitely had flash thoughts of "I could throw a chain on her and go for a spin!" But Ill be patient. Still have a lot to do before she road worthy. I actually have a pretty bad leak between the cam case and the head, so Ill have to order a new gasket set and give it another shot. The good thing though is that the yamabond on the cases is holding just fine.

My friend just stopped by to see the bike run. I did manage to get her running, but again the motor dies almost instantly. When I finally did get it to idle, it was going at ~3krpms. If the bike hadnt idled at 3k, then I would have just figured that the charging system is worn and needs to be replaced, but since I did get it to idle at 3k, Im pretty baffled. I hooked up the trickle charger, and tomorrow Ill see if I can get the bike to idle on a full battery.. if so then Ill know that the charging system (or some of the wiring going to it) is at least part of the issue.

 

[Tim]

Re: Not only my first project bike, but my first bike period!

So while I have the bike together, I figured Id do a quick wire up and see if I couldnt get it to fire. I had to reset the timing since I just did it visually before. I actually found that its quite easy to do it without a test light, just install your exhaust, have your battery connected, and you can actually hear the spark fire. So Im pretty confident that I am getting spark (using the stock coils, so it may be cold, but it should start the bike, right?) Im also pretty confident in the timing. I just rebuilt the motor, so I sure hope compression isnt the issue! I setup an auxiliary gas tank using an empty waterbottle, and its definitely feeding gas to the carbs. The slides are moving freely and all.. So Im really at a loss for why I cant get even a sputter..

Is it possible that I flooded the engine? How would I know, and how would I fix this? (actually now that I think of it, there was a tiny bit of gas that seemed to be seeping from the carb boots, does that tell us anything?

I'm a recent timing light convert, after realizing my Boyer ignition was firing after TDC, irrespective of installing it to their specs. Get a cheap $20-$30 strobe timing light. It will tell you 100% where it is firing, if the advance is working properly etc.

 

[boomshakalaka]

Re: Not only my first project bike, but my first bike period!

I'm a recent timing light convert, after realizing my Boyer ignition was firing after TDC, irrespective of installing it to their specs. Get a cheap $20-$30 strobe timing light. It will tell you 100% where it is firing, if the advance is working properly etc.

Not looking to be argumentative, but how is this different from pulling the plug and resting it on the case or frame then waiting for the spark? Instead of seeing a light illuminate, I see a spark arc on the plug. Is there something that Im missing?

 

[Tim]

Re: Not only my first etc etc! [SHE RUNS!!!! VIDEO!!]

No - I'm talking about a timing light, not a circuit testing light. It is a strobe light that connects to your battery for power, an inductive lead clamps onto your sparkplug wire, and it lights the strobe when the ignition fires, while the bike is running.

You point the light at your rotor/stator and you can see the mark on the rotor every time it fires, due to the strobe. So you see exactly where it is firing while running. And because you have a mechanical advance on the ignition, the point in the stroke at which the ignition fires actually changes (advances) as RPM increases. You want to see that happening when you rev the engine.

If it's showing up after the Advance mark on the stator, or wherever the manual says it should be firing, you rotate the points plate in one direction to further advance the ignition. If its showing up ahead of the mark, you rotate the plate the other way, changing the point at which the points make/break contact.

This is done on a VW Beetle, but it's the best vid I could find showing how the timing mark (in this case a mark on a pulley) shows up under the strobe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDXDV0ZO280