Opinions: best inline 4 project cafe bike?

marcross1009

New Member
I'm looking for a new project, I'm close to finished with an 82 cx500 tracker/scrambler. I had a 76 gt550 but was way too nice to cut up. And I have a bone stock 74 kawi h1. Kinda want to build a cafe racer/ brat style bike to run around town on. I like the fat wider tires, so I would like to be able to run wider tires and rims front and back. I am not adverse to swapping forks or swing arms to accommodate, but I don't want to mono shock due to frame stress issues and me not being a great welder. Definitely a chain drive bike. I've looked at a couple CB's and have thought about a Kawasaki kz, or Suzuki gs but I have no preference.... So I figured I'd ask here to see what you guys think are the pros and con's and what you prefer and what you have learned to stay away from(hard to find parts, etc)
 
One important thing is parts availability. Can you find a spare engine for a reasonable price? Are many parts available for your project?
 
All I know is you can get about anything you could want for a cb 500/550 four. Stock or aftermarket. That's about all the help I can be
 
hurco550 said:
All I know is you can get about anything you could want for a cb 500/550 four. Stock or aftermarket. That's about all the help I can be

+1


Just leave the KZs for me. ::)


.
 
There isn't a single inline four that makes a 'good' cafe bike, they are all too wide and heavy.
CB400f is closest to a narrow bike but really it's same size as a CB360 twin
CB550 is a way better bike than 500f but the Kawasaki 550'swere about the best in the early 80's (I've worked on all the mid range fours)
CB750 is incredibly over rated, it's a slug and handles like one
 
Look through galleries of cafe bikes for ideas of style and also note what motors are used. If you want to hit the highway and keep up, especially two up, you need at least a 550. Of course some of that equation involves your weight too. I know Hondas best, because I have a collection with every four except the 500 (one on the way), a CBX and a few other bikes.

I don't believe for a moment that the fours make lousy cafe bikes. Just look at their use in vintage racing. If they were such slugs, too wide or heavy, they would be trampled on the track.

If you are a light weight rider, the CB400F is a great bike, lots of pep and a 6 speed trans. It's really a shame that Honda didn't put six speeds in more of their fours. The CB550F or K is really quite surprising for pep and handling and the CB650 up to 80 was a really cool bike too. Mine is a great little rat for short haul riding. In 81 the CB650 got CV carbs and the suspension geometry was made more cruiser-like. On the SOHCs, put a 650 cam in a 550 to get better mid-range. The 400F motor bolts right into a 350F, the 650 likewise fits a 550 frame.

So, there's several considerations - any of the older 4s with smooth bore carbs are also SOHCs which a lot of guys prefer for simplified maintenance. The SOHC 550F or K and the 750F or K, have single left side disk up front but the fork legs & hub are set up to accept a right side disk, giving you duals. The smooth bore carbs give snappier performance because you're not waiting for vacuum to lift the slides. All of these older bikes use ball bearings in the steering head. Search for All Balls Racing and get a kit of tapered bearings. This alone will improve handling a lot. Also usually the swingarm bushings on older bikes need to be replaced. Similarly, do check the wheels and wheel bearings, and do a thorough brake refit. On any 30 plus year old bike, do the brakes, chuck old hydraulic lines and replace with SS lines. Use DOT5 fluid and then a spill won't wreck your paint. That applies even to the older DOHCs. None of the single disk version DOHCs are easily converted to dual disk. It's cheaper and easier to buy the forks, brakes and wheel from a dual equipped DOHC model but you may also need the triples. They are not all the same width.

Honda started using CV carbs about 79 on some bikes and by 81 I think all models had them. Also, all of their older DOHCs (750, 900, 1000) used CV carbs that work best with the original airbox because it's part of an engineered system.

Watch out if you're wanting to run a wider rear tire, because the swingarm isn't your only problem. You're width limit will be determined by the distance the rear sprocket sits from center. Otherwise if you run spacers or a wider hub from another bike, it won't line up with the motor.

The drawback on the DOHC is minor but made into a major issue by some people - the cam adjustment is "bucket and shim". Join DOHC Customs (CB750 dot com is NOT only for 750s) and you'll access all sorts of how-to guides and helpful guys. There's lots of DOHC 750Ks around for a reasonable price and the motors are strong. If you want you can get a big bore kit for them, taking them up to 836cc. Throw in a set of 900 cams (900C & F use the same cam) to avoid the typical Honda mid range blues. Hope that helps.

Instead of trying to decide on which bike to buy, get one of each like I did 8)
 
D9canada, thanks for the great insight on the Honda 4's. I'm am mainly planning on a one up setup. I really will have a hard time not building a scrambler style with dual sport tires, but I want to build a more street style this time around. It will mainly be used to run around town on small errands so I don't have to drive my 14mpg Tundra all the time. I would just ride the h1 but its only got 3000 original miles, and it only likes to go straight, and doesn't like to stop either.

And after dealing with the CV carbs on the cx500 I'm building now, I'd rather not deal with them if I can.
 
CB750's used for racing are not close to stock spec so I stand by me statement ;D
They need a lot of work to make a decent race bike, alternator removal is pretty common along with 'flat' plate cover.
550 will run way more than 80+mph, even two up fully loaded - but - you have to ride it how Honda intended, preferably above 6,000rpm
Using K1~K2 750 forks on 550 will give extra ground clearance and spring rates are better suited to the lighter bike. Personally I use CB750 rear shocks on 550 as well to prevent hard parts scraping too badly on corners
The early single disc 750's were larger diameter (around 20mm bigger if I remember right?), fitting duals is a real smart move unless you never do more than putter around.
 
Inline 4 Hondas are a fucking joke, a glorified commuter bike. If you insist on a 4 my money is on a z1 or a big kaw
 

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Just buy a F2 or F3 CBR600. They are years advanced over any of the other bikes listed, it will be easy to find parts for and will be a better $ to :D ratio. The prices are pretty low and they haul azz nicely compared to the older bikes. You can do it up however you want and no one will get upset cause you touched an original 70's Honda.
 
If I wanted a modern sport bike like the CBR I would just buy an R1. But I don't and I think they made enough 70's Hondas that they would not lead to ridicule for modifying them, its not like cutting up a Vincent or Brough Superior.
 
I agree that doing the "cafe" treatement to a modern bike just isn't the same. If we're talking aesthetics alone, the sohc Hondas are sexy motors IMO.
 
IMHO... you may get some good info with this question, but for the most part your just going to get vomit.
 
Sorry didn't mean to make pooh pooh in the potato salad. Just offering that the F2 has the front end with disk brakes that a lot of guys would love to have, modern suspension, lots of parts available, a strong 4 cylinder, etc. and bodywork can be changed as well as frames modified just like any other "cafe" project.
Anyhow. Good luck with the search.
 
Thomas_Hudson said:
Sorry didn't mean to make pooh pooh in the potato salad. Just offering that the F2 has the front end with disk brakes that a lot of guys would love to have, modern suspension, lots of parts available, a strong 4 cylinder, etc. and bodywork can be changed as well as frames modified just like any other "cafe" project.
Anyhow. Good luck with the search.
F2's are a blast. An absolute blast.

IMAG0915_zpsb01f796d.jpg
Mine'll officially be an antique in four more years. The first year of them, two years.
 
Look for a 78-ish KZ650. Lighter than the 750s but can be made to pull like one. Straight pull carbs, piston kits available, beefier frame than a 550.
 
Tune-A-Fish said:
IMHO... you may get some good info with this question, but for the most part your just going to get vomit.
Maybe true but I figured I would also get the guys who say.... stay away from this because I had one and parts were hard to get or they had motor issues with this or that. Plus everyone has bikes they love or hate for one reason or another, and some are founded(some not) and I wanted to see what people who had been down that road already had to say.

Like from my experience with the cx500 I learned, I do not want a shaft drive, and dislike the CV carbs.

Chain drive offers more wheel choices and the CV carbs don't like to function with pods well.
 
Agree with CC. KZ650s are pretty much just as fast, if not even faster, than the DOHC 750 Hondas (ask how I know... :/ ) and weigh a good 40-50lbs less. Also, their carbs are way easier to tune and work on.

When I had my 750, I helped a friend with his 76 KZ650. It was way out of tune and he had some parts he wanted to swap over. After, we took em out and opened em up. Granted my gears were set at +2/+4, but that's not much different than stock. I weighed 170, he weighed about 225, and I couldn't shake him (I also had VFR carbs on my 750 I later found out, and 4-1 header, his was basically stock)

I always threw the idea around of a nice twin (like a SV650/1000 or a TL-R1k/VTR) and stuffing it in a tight frame, running like a 180-190 rear and setting up a modern front end, but still keeping it aesthetically "cafe".
 
marcross1009 said:
Maybe true but I figured I would also get the guys who say.... stay away from this because I had one and parts were hard to get or they had motor issues with this or that. Plus everyone has bikes they love or hate for one reason or another, and some are founded(some not) and I wanted to see what people who had been down that road already had to say.

Like from my experience with the cx500 I learned, I do not want a shaft drive, and dislike the CV carbs.

Chain drive offers more wheel choices and the CV carbs don't like to function with pods well.

The reason I said that is because you will and are getting the ford vs chevy replies rather than any real answer.

"Hondas are Fucking Junk"... that's super constructive... big displacement inline 4's should not be included in the the cafe racers category "4 the most part"... you can call it a cafe inspired design, but really the Z, Z1 Z1R KZ GPZ ZX CBF CB CBR etc. are sport tour/superbike's.

Any of them will work, find one you like and do what you want.
 
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