Pro Builders Running Stock Carbs With Pods - Opinions?

N

ncologerojr

Coast to Coast
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I'm getting ready to tackle my next project, an '81 CB750f. I ran my stock CV carbs with pods on my last Cj360 project and the tuning was a PIA! Honestly, it ran great but never as smooth as with stock air boxes. Now I can't imagine tuning the 750's 4 CV carbs with pods, especially the way the outer carbs are more exposed than the inners. I know this topic has been beaten to death...
That being said, there seems to be a lot of respectable pro-builders running stock carbs with pods on their DOHC 750's. Do you think that they've just mastered the tuning, or do you think the bikes just don't quite run perfectly? I am in no way an expert on this, what are your opinions? Maybe someone has first hand experience here?

-Nick
 
They don't run well. "Pro Builders" is not a term that can be applied to people running pods with stock carbs on DOHC Hondas.

Personally, I use this as a basic litmus test. If you're running pods and stock carbs on a DOHC Honda, then you're not a pro. You're more likely to be a band wagon jumper who is more into making art than a usable product.
 
Sonreir said:
They don't run well. "Pro Builders" is not a term that can be applied to people running pods with stock carbs on DOHC Hondas.

Personally, I use this as a basic litmus test. If you're running pods and stock carbs on a DOHC Honda, then you're not a pro. You're more likely to be a band wagon jumper who is more into making art than a usable product.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that is what I was thinking as well... One company I've noticed doing it a lot is SteelBentCustoms.com. I shot them an email inquiry about their tuning process, we'll see if they respond. I've also seen Dustin Kott doing it on one of his latest dohc builds, and he is a builder I really respect. I am in no way trying to put down these builders, as I like their products. Plus their success in a small market speaks for itself.
Do you think these bikes really run poor? Or just at a level acceptable for the average rider, but not a true enthusiast? I just cant Imagine paying for a custom machine that doesn't run rite...
 
I don't think success in the market has as much to do with a quality product as one would think (at least not quality as I would define it). Professional (not as in skill level, but as is people who make their living doing it) bike builders don't necessarily build bikes that work; they build bikes that sell. This is because there is a decent amount of ignorance about what constitutes a "good" bike. There are a good many consumers out there whose primary concern is looking cool. As long as their machine makes it from point A to point B, how well it functions is a secondary consideration.

Most of the stuff you see on Pipeburn, Bike EXIF, etc, should be taken with a grain of salt. These are, first, bikes that are made to be photographed and, second, bikes that may or may not be made to be ridden.

In order to get an idea of what works in the real world, you need to step away from the magazines and flashy centerfolds and examine bikes whose purpose is performance and not page views. You need a different yard stick.
 
Sonreir said:
I don't think success in the market has as much to do with a quality product as one would think (at least not quality as I would define it). Professional (not as in skill level, but as is people who make their living doing it) bike builders don't necessarily build bikes that work; they build bikes that sell. This is because there is a decent amount of ignorance about what constitutes a "good" bike. There are a good many consumers out there whose primary concern is looking cool. As long as their machine makes it from point A to point B, how well it functions is a secondary consideration.

Most of the stuff you see on Pipeburn, Bike EXIF, etc, should be taken with a grain of salt. These are, first, bikes that are made to be photographed and, second, bikes that may or may not be made to be ridden.

In order to get an idea of what works in the real world, you need to step away from the magazines and flashy centerfolds and examine bikes whose purpose is performance and not page views. You need a different yard stick.
Click to expand...

Nicely said.
 
You also have to consider that a lot of those guys ARE pro builders. The fact that the carbs look stock doesn't mean they haven't been toyed with internally. There are ways to get stock CV carbs to work right with pods/stacks/what-have-you.

That said, there are also a lot of guys that do it just for looks, tuning be damned. Those guys, generally, are not what you would consider a "pro"
 
coyote13 said:
You also have to consider that a lot of those guys ARE pro builders. The fact that the carbs look stock doesn't mean they haven't been toyed with internally. There are ways to get stock CV carbs to work right with pods/stacks/what-have-you.
Click to expand...

When it comes to the stock carbs on Honda DOHCs, I know several who have tried and none who have succeeded. The amount of time and effort it would take to modify the carbs to work would make it unfeasible to do so.

Occam's Razor says that a DOHC Honda with stock carbs isn't a bike that will be tuned well.
 
don't do it, i tried PODS, going back to the airbox.
if you do it, you'll see what people are talking about.
its a PITA, and will never be perfect.
 
Yes, I hate BikeExif bikes that have uncomfortable seats, sit too low and have pod filters, they are made only to be photographed and run like shit. Take this one:


http://www.bikeexif.com/honda-cb750-4




O. Wait. That is my bike, it runs fantastically (although after years the carbs could use balancing) and I have been running it for thousands and thousands of miles since that BikeExif article. Last ride was 2 nights ago:

IMG_9626_zps635d053b.jpg


People judge a bit quickly....


Anyway. I'm not a great mechanic, but I managed to get it to run properly all by myself. People also say Royal Enfields run like crap with the stock carb and especially with a pancack airfilter.

https://vimeo.com/73243067




The internet can be very useful, but some things must be taken with a grain of salt. Some stories just get a life on their own because people keep repeating them form hear-say.
 
miob, the carbs on your '72 are a completely different animal than the OP's '81. His CV carbs will perform best with the factory airbox due to their design.
I don't think anyone meant to imply that all bikes that make it to print are the "all show-no go" trailer queens. More that just because a bike has a feature spot in a magazine, doesn't equate to it being a well tuned runner. So much focus is placed on appearances that a bikes real world application is sometimes overlooked.
 
Sorry, I sould have been a bit moe elaborate: There are countless poosts here and elsewhere that pods don't work on X-bike. Just google SOHC + Pods. I've been told many times that especially SOHC's (it's always the bike you're working on...) just won't run properly with pods.

I was told to switch the carbs for the carbs of a DOHC because those do run with pods.

So in short: don't believe what everybody is telling yo because everybody told them it's true ;)
 
Sonreir said:
When it comes to the stock carbs on Honda DOHCs, I know several who have tried and none who have succeeded. The amount of time and effort it would take to modify the carbs to work would make it unfeasible to do so.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily so.

In the last last year or so the Honda RSC tuning manual for the 750/900 DOHC has come back to light in the manual on page eight it tells you what to do to internally to modify the carbs to run with velocity stacks and advise on jetting. This is what honda needed to do to make the it eligible for production racing as like everyone knows they dont run as stock with pods.
Basically it involves inserting a ball bearing or plug to effectively change it from a 2 jet system to a one jet.

http://www.cb750c.com/Genesound/carbdocs/RS1000manualV1.pdf
 
Stacks and pods do entirely different things to airflow.

I didn't look at the document, but it sounds like it just gets rid of the idle circuit. Early CR's had one circuit. Fine for the racetrack where the majority of time is spent at 3/4 throttle or greater.

Not so hot for street use.
 
mlinder said:
Stacks and pods do entirely different things to airflow.
Click to expand...

Agreed but the intention of the modification is too make the carbs work without the stock airbox which is required to enable the cvs in stock form to operate correctly. Stacks or pods each have their ownair flow rather than from a single source airbox.


mlinder said:
I didn't look at the document, but it sounds like it just gets rid of the idle circuit. Early CR's had one circuit. Fine for the racetrack where the majority of time is spent at 3/4 throttle or greater.

Not so hot for street use.
Click to expand...

I believe it just blanks of the secondary circuit the idle circuit is still in use.
 
notlob said:
Agreed but the intention of the modification is too make the carbs work without the stock airbox which is required to enable the cvs in stock form to operate correctly. Stacks or pods each have their ownair flow rather than from a single source airbox.


I believe it just blanks of the secondary circuit the idle circuit is still in use.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I'll have to take a look at that when I have some time to absorb some info.

I'll probably have to kick out some stupid songs from my brain to make room for it.
 
mlinder said:
Stacks and pods do entirely different things to airflow.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My CJ360 runs with stock carbs and stacks. Admittedly it doesn't run perfectly, but it's a lot better than my friend's 360 with pods.
 
miob said:
Sorry, I sould have been a bit moe elaborate: There are countless poosts here and elsewhere that pods don't work on X-bike. Just google SOHC + Pods. I've been told many times that especially SOHC's (it's always the bike you're working on...) just won't run properly with pods.

I was told to switch the carbs for the carbs of a DOHC because those do run with pods.

So in short: don't believe what everybody is telling yo because everybody told them it's true ;)
Click to expand...

I think you got your "S"s and "D"s swapped around... the older stlye slide carbs on the Single Over Head Cam engines fair better than the later Vacuum piston Dual Over Head Cammers
 
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