raped my paint job

DC74inc

Come on in and sit on it.
My gold and black scheme is fully f**ked after I used painter tape on the frame to put the engine in, in turn tearing out my 3 layers of rustoleum gold on the frame... ahhh... SO. I'm at square one.. again with paint, I hadn't primed the frame or clear coated. There's that. I'm considering powder coating.. does that cost over 200 bones? And then finally doing an amco automotive paint job with clear/primer. What do you guys think, Right now It like half bare metal half gold flake. ughh. :-\ btw its a 360.

Basically are spray cans just a cheap way out, and is a gun paint job from an automotive paint shop anymore durable?
 

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Sounds like you didn't de-grease before painting (or if you did, you used the wrong stuff)
Personally, I've done a lot of bikes over the years with rattlecans (including real cheap stuff from dollar store)
Never had the problem you describe if prep was done right (even on gas tanks)
 
I would use 2k paint.

you can buy clear coat aerosol 2k, 1k paint can be washed off with paint thinner or gasoline if you do not do well enough prep work.
whatever you do use a good primer first, and remember, cleanliness is next two godliness ;)

It is better to spend some more money on paint so you do not have to do things twice!
 
Mm well, I donzpp't recall any degreasing or grease for that matter. Anyhow I now see the purpose of spending a lil more to do it right... that's cool you can get a nice spray can job out, I'll have to read the forums on that.. really though I might just let 'er sit in the garage for a few weeks and do a.powder job... lol
 

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peterrk said:
I would use 2k paint.

you can buy clear coat aerosol 2k, 1k paint can be washed off with paint thinner or gasoline if you do not do well enough prep work.
whatever you do use a good primer first, and remember, cleanliness is next two godliness ;)

2k?


It is better to spend some more money on paint so you do not have to do things twice!
 
It's. 2k Clear. Go to Eastwoods site and search for it there. Awesome stuff- dries rock hard and is extremely fuel resistant. Only bad part about it is that once you mix the 2 parts, you have 24 hours before it's junk.
 
it is a paint with hardener. The same paint you have on the car. much more resistance against scratches and pollution than paint without hardener.
 
And while you're doing your research, sorting out how much properly cleaning, prepping, priming and painting your frame and other bits will cost, also call up a couple local powdercoaters (check the industrial ones - they're often much less expensive than the guys doing it for car and bike restorations) and get prices.

I paid $200 to have my frame, 2 swingarms and all the other small brackets and bits done in gloss black (might have paid another $50 for a different color to cover the cost of swapping out the colors in the guns). That included everything - I walked in with greasy parts (I did haul the frame to the local DIY car wash bays and sprayed it a bit to get the worst off) and walked out with paper-wrapped pc'd parts.

They plugged the right holes, sandblasted the parts etc.

I look at it this way - how much did all that gold paint cost you, and how much is re-doing it going to cost you? Probably more than the cost of paying to have it done right the first time.

I spend money and time on the things that I don't want to do twice, like painting frames, spokes (only use stainless Buchanan), engine internals. Other stuff that I can remove and re-do easily, I'll experiment a bit and try different DIY approaches.
 
Hey guys, if you use 2 pack paint, (2K) you really need some good respirators.
It chemically hardens, if you breath any in, it hardens in your lungs (not a good thing)
Breathing could get quite difficult after that :eek:
 
How long did you let the paint dry? Rattle can stuff takes a few days to set even in the right conditions. I did the same with mine the, used rustoleum and it worked fine. Just let it set till it was hard enough I couldn't scratch it with a fingernail. And that FOAM pipe insulation you can get a lowes or home depot is better protection for the frame than tape. Can use it over and over too.
 
Obviously this gets difficult with pieces like the frame, but baking the parts before and after painting helps as well. I like to let my parts sit in the oven at 200F° for about 30 minutes, pull them out and give them a wipe down with denatured alcohol or acetone and then paint them before they have time too cool off.

After the paint is dry to touch (4-8 hours or so), chuck the parts back in the oven at 300F° for 30 minutes.
 
I've done the parts in the oven trick and it works great. As for bigger parts like the frame im a powder coat guy all the way. cost is a lil more but well worth it. my swingarm had lil pitting but the powder coating cleaned and smoothed it right out . like everyone has said prep work goes a LONG way and saves alot of time when it comes to painting.
 
it was months old, I did bake the engine in the oven. interesting experience.

BTW I snapped off one of the friction plate bolts last night inside the threads of the clutch plate housing! woahoh... I have a new (used) part coming, how much tension is needed on the friction plate bolts, because they are spring loaded, I didn't reach the end of the springs but yeah, the mofo snapped and was not repairable. how tight should the friction plate springs be?
 

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I'm trying to figure this out myself!


I currently have mine finger tight and even on all 4, I'm assuming this to be right?


I'll wait for you more experienced builders to chime in..
 
Not much. Without looking in the service manual I want to say it's only a few INCH pounds- not foot pounds.

I think it was you that said it's not in the manual? There should be a chart or something that says something like "bolts not listed: grade x is so many foot pounds, grade y is that many foot pounds, etc, etc". Or find a manual from a later model that uses similar parts and use those torque settings (last resort IMO)
 
6mm bolt, 7ft/lbs, 84 inch pounds
best way to remove broken bolt is 5mm drill from the back side, unthreaded portion guides drill but and usually spins right out
 
nice nice, I'll look for that torsion chart on the bolts that sounds cool. Essentially I'll tighten it to then tension of what a clutch pull should be, less than five ft/lb's. As opposed to like 3 cycles of ten ft/lb's until the bolt snaps!! haha. how's that sound.

$8.69 entire clutch basket, ebay ;D
 

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Hell of a good deal on clutch.
Get some CB350 'race' springs and modify hub (I think there are pics in my build somewhere?)
 
I am more or less constantly amazed about how little knowledge this is about automotive type painting among motor-sport enthusiasts. Virtually all cars and bikes are painted, but no one seems to know squat about paint.


Rattle can paint is worthless for painting bikes or cars, in fact its worse than worthless because you have to go to the effort and expense of removing it after it fails or suffer a bike with greatly diminished value because of its rattle can paint job. The stuff is garbage designed to rope in the folks who think it will make their patio furniture look nice - another thing its not much good for. There is one exception to this, one that is little known and rarely used. Many paint suppliers can mix up a paint and put it in a rattle can for you, even a catalyzed paint (which must be used quickly). You're still stuck with no paint control because of the rattle-can's paint valve, but at least you can get decent paint put in the can.


Automotive paints come in many types and varieties, but for your purposes there are only a few. First there are "single stage" paints, which are paints that stand alone and provide their own color and gloss. Basically you shoot them on, in a couple of coats, and let it dry a day or two and its done. 2K paint systems, and by the way, the paints were developed in Germany and the "2K" stands for "two komponent", are paints in which a base coat carries the color and a clear coat provides the gloss and final protection. There are a lot of painters who swear by single stage paints. Their claim, and its is a good one, is that for single colors they are more color-fast, the colors are usually more vibrant. A lot of people also think that single stage blacks are the blackest of blacks. That said, virtually every custom paint job you see is done with either base coats followed by clear or with candies followed by clear, with the base or candy being either catalyzed or not, but always in a two (or more - often many more) stage process.


Clear coats are impervious to gasoline. Virtually all clear coats (not intercoat clears, which are an entirely different product) are catalyzed, which is to say they require a hardener to set up. They do not dry, they "set" by way of a chemical reaction between components of the clear itself and other components in the hardener.


About degreasers and degreasing; no one is talking about globs of grease like you'd find around a ball-joint, what degreasers do is remove the greases and oils from your hands and similar sources. All it takes to ruin a paint job is a finger-print's worth of oil. Degreasers themselves can be bought at your local automotive paint supplier, the PPG stuff I use cost right at $20 a gallon and is enough to do a half a dozen bikes. I use a water based degreaser but it also comes in solvent based. The trick with these cleaners is to remember that what they do is lift the contaminants and hold them in suspension long enough for you to wipe them off. You don't let your degreaser/wax-remover dry on the surface, you wipe it, and the contaminants it freed up, off the surface. Normally you degrease before you shoot your first coat of sealer on top of the metal before priming and won't use it again until after all the prep is done and you're ready to shoot your final sealer before painting.


As for powder coating, its probably the best way to finish a frame. It is much more durable than even the best base-coat/clear-coat job and costs about the same as top of the line paint products. The down side, which is becoming less of one every day, is that you don't have as many choices of color or effect as with paints - but that is changing very quickly. My local guy gets right at $200 to do a frame along with its assorted brackets, swing arm, and such. Naturally that includes prep (sand blasting) and masking.


As to brands, it depends on where you are and what's around. If you live in or near a good sized town there should be at least one auto paint supplier who carries a nationally known brand. If not you can mail order any paints or prep materials you need. TCP Global is the leading internet supplier of such things, they are reasonably priced and they have everything you need. If you are planning on using top of the line products be prepared for a little sticker shock. A problem for a guy wanting to paint a bike is that all the products he will need are sold in quantities much greater than he will need. The smallest amount of base coat you can usually buy is a quart, but a quart is enough base coat to paint a dozen motorcycles. 4 oz of mixed paint (base coat plus reducer) is more than enough to paint a motorcycle frame with several coats of paint. A quart of House of Kolor BC25, Black, will cost you about $45 plus shipping. Fortunately TCPGlobal sells their own lineup, hearalded by Ed Hubbs (look him up on You-Tube for his videos on custom painting, they are fantastic!) the stuff is called their Kustom Shop lineup. They sell Ready To Spray (RTS) basecoats in 4oz. containers. I think they get $10~15 for them, a great savings for the bike painter. The thing that lets me recommend them is that TCP has great product turnaround, nothing sits on the shelves for long. So you can buy pre-reduced paint from them and be confident that it hasn't been sitting in the bottle for a year or two before you got it. It should be fresh. Don't get me wrong, left-over base coat, even if it has been reduced, can be kept for a very long time; its just best if you don't. Sooner or later the pigments or dies form into little dust-like blobs in the carrier. You don't want that.


That's all that comes to mind immediately from the original question. Got any more questions?
 
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