Running no front brake is it safe?
- Thread starter rubber-side-down
- Start date
rubber-side-down
Active Member
Holy sh!t touchy subject......lol just to clear this up I don't plan on running no front brake merely just asking the question. Thanks tho!
rubber-side-down
Active Member
And now that I've gone back and read all the posts a lot of you guys assholes, what's that about? Kinda reminds me why I stopped coming to this site. I mean really I ask a question and now I'm some flip fop wearin t-shirt riding wannbie? No worries.
ProSimex
RUN SCREAMING!!!
my buddy runs with just a rear on his rigid sporty, he rides pretty hard and does all right, he has a disk though. I wouldnt do it myself and certainly not with a drum, those things just love locking up.
I dunno, do it if ya want, but when that rear drum locks up, I love being able to use my front disc.
I dunno, do it if ya want, but when that rear drum locks up, I love being able to use my front disc.
Bert Jan
Holy Modification Batman
The rear locking up will be least of your problems. The reat wheel will just start to slip, whilst the front wheel (when braking) will be forced on the tarmac by the weight of the bike and yourself. Therefor the front brake does 80%, the rear 20%. It is physically impossible to make a rear wheel brake as hard as a front wheel.
With all respect, when you consider yourself a bikebuilder instead of a flipflop wearing hipster wannabe, you shouldn't have asked the question to begin with. If you don't like the way we try to warn you, don't bother and drive yourself to a certain death.
I don't give a shit.
With all respect, when you consider yourself a bikebuilder instead of a flipflop wearing hipster wannabe, you shouldn't have asked the question to begin with. If you don't like the way we try to warn you, don't bother and drive yourself to a certain death.
I don't give a shit.
rubber-side-down said:
I think if the original question was asked more in general terms about how much of the stopping power of the motorcycle was provided by the front vs. rear brake, and how stopping distances, control under braking etc. were impacted by running without front brakes, as some customs choose to do, the responses might have been less 'are you fucking nuts?' We might have had an informative discussion on the physics of braking and the importance of the front vs. rear brake on a motorcycle.
But you asked the question in context of liking the way your bike looked without the brake, and if you'd have the same stopping power without it. Very specific to you, your preference, and what appeared to be a direction you might be headed in. And on top of that, 'rubber-side-down' as a username would suggest you're keen on keeping the rubber side down - i.e. interested in a properly performing, safe, fast good handling motorcycle.
I don't think anyone needs to ask if their bike will have the same stopping power without the front brake. That's like asking if the bike would go just as fast without the engine. It's a rather obvious answer and asking the question is going to produce sarcastic responses.
So there you go - the front brake is important, you'll loose probably 80% of your braking power without it, and will likely end up eating the rear window of the car in front of you when they slam on their brakes because they thought it would be funny. Glad you plan on running with one after all.
Walms
Been Around the Block
IMO you should be running a disc up front too... I've been told by a few guys here that a drum can be tuned to work well but I've never been on a drum brake bike ever that I was impressed by the brakes.
My old Kawi triple has the capability to do stoppies... Not that I do them but its the benchmark for any of my bikes from now on.
Trust me, it only takes one asshole to make a left in front of you to change your mindset...
My old Kawi triple has the capability to do stoppies... Not that I do them but its the benchmark for any of my bikes from now on.
Trust me, it only takes one asshole to make a left in front of you to change your mindset...
Walms
Been Around the Block
VonYinzer said:
It really comes down to how fast you like to be able to stop I suppose...
I'll never be convinced that a drum system can perform to the point of a modern caliper on a disc...
Everything is relative... You guys flamed the original poster about even asking about riding with no front brake, I'm a member of a few forums that would do the same for considering a drum... Just saying.
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
I'm not denying that MODERN brake components function better than 40 year old drums. That's silly. What I'm saying is that you don't need to run out and build a new wheel/brake just because you have a drum. My R5 will have a modern FZR rotor and cailper with a radial master. It will certainly outperform the stock drum, but with a clean up and modern shoes with a new cable that stock drum would lock the front wheel from 50mph. I know that for a fact.
Upgrades are awesome and can be quite beneficial but there's nothing wrong with a properly built drum.
Upgrades are awesome and can be quite beneficial but there's nothing wrong with a properly built drum.
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
The real question is not braking force. A well adjusted Drum or Disk can Lock the front wheel. The force on the wheel is the same. The maximum braking, assuming you can lock the wheel, becomes the grip of the tire with the road. Stoppies are as much brakes as tires that have much more grip than the tires of the 70's.
Now let me elaborate. Despite that a good drum or good disk brake can apply the same force to the wheel, there are other factors.
A drum brake, especially the DLS setup, is self actuated. Because of the geometry of the shoe, it is wedged tighter by rotating force. That is why a properly radiused and adjusted fromnt drum is so powerful, it requires less handle force to get the same braking power. In addition, look at the surface area of a drum vs disc. It takes a LOT of disks to get that kind of area. BUT, the enemy of braking it heat. Braking is converting your forward motion (energy) to heat. Being enclosed in the hub, the heat on the brake shoe has difficulty escaping quickly. Vents help, but there is a LOT of heat developed. Heat caused fade. No one likes fading brakes. the other issue is brake dust. the dust generated is relatively trapped in the drum. It lowers the friction rate too. The dust is like adding little ball bearing to the stopping surface. In addition, the cable is all that sensitive. It is harder to control the drum brake with a cable, then if it had a hydraulic piston. If you ever rode a cable actuated disk brake, they have the same issue.
A disc brake, though requiring more more to get the same stopping power, has the advantage of being self cleaning: the water and dust fly right off, and more open to the atmosphere, so the heat is better able to escape.
In the drum brake days, if you went through a deep puddle, you literally had nearly no brakes at all. Talking cars here. the Car disk brake changed that . To compensate for the extra force, they added a larger power booster on the master cylinder. Non-powered drum brakes were common, but I can't remember any un-boosted disk brakes.
What the modern hydraulic disc brings is sensitivity. the ability to control the braking force to a finer extent then a cable operated drum.
And my CB360 had sucky disk brakes. The drums were better. Until I changed to stainless steel braided hoses. The front brake is so much better. More controllable and easier to modulate.
Finally, if you think you stop as well with a rear brake as a front. You can test that pretty easily. Put up some cones, or any marker in a parking lot. Go 20 MPH and stop as quick as you can, first front brake only, then rear brake only. Then measure the difference in distance.
Remember , a sport bike can stop with the front brake and sticky tires hard enough to lift the rear wheel off the ground. Stopping unloads the rear. If you are stopping rear only, the weight transfers tot he front, the rear starts to lift, and you get even less traction to stop. Prove it to yourself. Wear good gear though, because the rear will slide around a lot .If you fall, you want some protection.
Now let me elaborate. Despite that a good drum or good disk brake can apply the same force to the wheel, there are other factors.
A drum brake, especially the DLS setup, is self actuated. Because of the geometry of the shoe, it is wedged tighter by rotating force. That is why a properly radiused and adjusted fromnt drum is so powerful, it requires less handle force to get the same braking power. In addition, look at the surface area of a drum vs disc. It takes a LOT of disks to get that kind of area. BUT, the enemy of braking it heat. Braking is converting your forward motion (energy) to heat. Being enclosed in the hub, the heat on the brake shoe has difficulty escaping quickly. Vents help, but there is a LOT of heat developed. Heat caused fade. No one likes fading brakes. the other issue is brake dust. the dust generated is relatively trapped in the drum. It lowers the friction rate too. The dust is like adding little ball bearing to the stopping surface. In addition, the cable is all that sensitive. It is harder to control the drum brake with a cable, then if it had a hydraulic piston. If you ever rode a cable actuated disk brake, they have the same issue.
A disc brake, though requiring more more to get the same stopping power, has the advantage of being self cleaning: the water and dust fly right off, and more open to the atmosphere, so the heat is better able to escape.
In the drum brake days, if you went through a deep puddle, you literally had nearly no brakes at all. Talking cars here. the Car disk brake changed that . To compensate for the extra force, they added a larger power booster on the master cylinder. Non-powered drum brakes were common, but I can't remember any un-boosted disk brakes.
What the modern hydraulic disc brings is sensitivity. the ability to control the braking force to a finer extent then a cable operated drum.
And my CB360 had sucky disk brakes. The drums were better. Until I changed to stainless steel braided hoses. The front brake is so much better. More controllable and easier to modulate.
Finally, if you think you stop as well with a rear brake as a front. You can test that pretty easily. Put up some cones, or any marker in a parking lot. Go 20 MPH and stop as quick as you can, first front brake only, then rear brake only. Then measure the difference in distance.
Remember , a sport bike can stop with the front brake and sticky tires hard enough to lift the rear wheel off the ground. Stopping unloads the rear. If you are stopping rear only, the weight transfers tot he front, the rear starts to lift, and you get even less traction to stop. Prove it to yourself. Wear good gear though, because the rear will slide around a lot .If you fall, you want some protection.
