Texas Two Step Taco

If you google John Murray you will get a Scottish theologian but if you google Bultaco and John Murray you get the Reverend of Speed...just need a frame.

IMG_6800.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Weren't you told to stay off the internet? Stop messing around and get back to work :mad:

It gets even worse. I could have been a scribe or a monk. In my opinion If you want to learn how to do something there is no excuse not to do it especially with the internet and DTT. If I was a scribe or monk there would have been a modification to the manuscript and we wouldn’t have billions of dollars being spent on buildings on Sunday mornings. It would be spent on helping poor old slow motorcycles go faster and not be all alone. Especially two strokes.

In the case of building a remote hand held starter for a drag bike. Terminology. What we are looking for in a starter is an OSGR starter. Offset Gear Reduction Starter. Now with that little piece of information you can find any manufactures model you want. What do we want in an OSGR starter? Japanese is what we want not Chinese: Now that presents a problem. Oreilly, Autozone, Amazon, EBay. Et al all have Toyota and Honda OSGR starters but are they made in Japan. No! Then there is Summit Racing the big box store of racing. Now Summit wants charge you almost double for a the same Chinese OSGR starter you can buy off Amazon.

Now amazon has that little extended warranty you can get for 17 bucks. More on that later.

Now what we need is power, KW for you civilized folks or HP horse power for the Cowboys! Doesn’t matter if you are Australian or Texan we want the ponies in our bikes and our starters. The higher the compression the more ponies you need and with an OSGR starter we are going to get increased Torque from our ponies and everybody know it is Horsepower for show and Torque for go. Now let’s make this more interesting. What if the wife is going to use the remote starter to help you ? What starter do we need to build?

Now I have been scribing through mounds of internet trash so that you don’t have to and have found some joules. If you ever want to learn how to build a flat track racing fire breathing brake your leg if you try and kick it monster. Then read this document. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1zT6D9U_iQoC5PElv8fOLHjHEG-P9fsJptecKjnweJFc/mobilebasic

Down in the bowels of that document is this.

“Handheld Remote Starter
Nothing makes you feel more alive than when a big bore single kicks back and breaks your foot. You’ll only try to kick start a thumper wearing flip-flops one time and you’ll learn this lesson.
You can build a handheld starter for about $150 from a junkyard Toyota truck starter. The biggest single cost will be the battery at almost $80 from Walmart. Use NAPA starter PN 244-6106 for $84 with a $30 core OR an O'Reilly – PN 16901 for $69 with a $20 core. You can use a starter that fits a 1984-5 1.8L Accord and 1986-9 2.0L Accord or a junkyard gear reduction Nippondenso starter from an early 90's Toyota PU. All spin counterclockwise just like the TT/XT500 engine. I had to massage the start relay to prevent the bendix drive from extending. (I cut the drive pin shorter so the electrical contacts are made but the drive shaft is not driven forward.) The advantage of a gear reduction motor is they require less starting amperage meaning a smaller battery and are lighter in weight. A $10 NAPA push button activates it. Always disable the Bendix so it won’t kick outwards.
Use a motorcycle battery Odyssey PC68 (Dimensions in inches) 7.15L x 3.00W x 6.65H) In metric: 181.5 x 76.3 x 167.8 mm @ $117. Use Odyssey’s Stud Adapter 0220-0888 @ $11. Or go to Batteries Plus for a gel cell. Ask your local golf course cart barn for a couple of used shorty battery cables or cut the ends off some cheapo battery cables. Use 4 ga. or 6 ga. wire for everything else. The more juice that starter gets, the more power it has but 10 ga.or 12 ga. won't let it roll the engine over. Get a powerful battery and not the heaviest one they sell like I did once.
To remove Honda starter gear:
Remove the bolts out of the rear of the starter
Remove the gear housing cover
Then remove the drive gear
Here's a picture:
IMG_6817.jpg







Remove the solenoid lever. You don’t want the armature jumping out to engage anything.
One thing that needs to be mentioned here - The crank nut comes off in the same direction that you need to spin the motor on a XT/TT500 (counterclockwise). To take care of this, it is necessary to impact the nut on using Green SLEEVE LOCKER Loctite. Clean the crank and nut threads with acetone and a brush first. Make sure it is tight with an air impact wrench turned down to less than 90psi. When you need to remove the nut it may be necessary to heat the nut first and remove while it is still warm.
TIP: Paint LH thread nuts bright red to remind you that they are LH thread.
Or use a Sharpie to write it on your flywheel.”

Now you will notice that the XT/TT500 share the same problem that the Bultaco’s have on the flywheel nut! How did these old crafty flattrackers handle that? Green loctite and an impact! They also know if you lose your nut your flywheel will stay on because it is the taper that is holding the flywheel on not the nut. But your competitors may not appreciate you dropping a nut. No if you start googling those part numbers you will find Honda and Toyota OSGR starters. The Honda is 1.4 kw and is a clockwise rotation. https://www.obbstartersandalternato...MI29_xuo-D6QIVENvACh3RrAteEAQYAiABEgK3vfD_BwE

Now 1.4 kw is is 1.877 British Horse Powers. But can we find the ELon Musk offset gear reduction starter? Yes we can and yes we will get to the Paris Hilton tuning but wait there is more!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Now why do we want an OSGR starter? Here is a tutorial on racing starters for high compression engines. https://www.onedirt.com/tech/choosing-the-right-starter-for-high-compression-engines/

Not only does it give us more torque on the front end but it takes less power on the back end. That brings up one of my favorite words mini! Before the marketing of the mini super duper powerful offset gear reduction starter there was a mate down in Australia replacing his starter under his Toyota Hilux and he said to himself. I am awful tired of kicking this Taco like a kangaroo. So he removed the starter and used it on his land speed bike and realizes it was smaller than most other motors but more powerful. It is a paradox as my Mrs says. How you can get something so small but so powerful.

Ok here are some options for almost double the Kw of the Toyota and Honda starters but will they last?

This is what Summit Racing will charge you for a 3hp gear reduction starter https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all80515 remember the max compression is for 8 cylinders

Here is the Toyota Hilux that I think John is using and it is 1.8 kw or 2.44 hp

Diesel Starter Motor Truck Pickup Fits For Hilux Surf 3L LN86 106 111 132 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DXOH6KQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_iRaPEbN33KGZY

This is 2 kw or 2.68 hp caterpillar diesel weighs the same as Johns
DB Electrical 410-52382 Starter, 12V, 11T, Cw, Osgr, 2Kw, New, Caterpillar 302.5 1999 3013 Diesel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0725YL3CX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_albPEbEJXSY6T


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It's kind of amusing to see the batteries for sale at the parts store, starting off with little ones they say are good for 4 cyl cars, then bigger ones said to be good for bigger 4s and sixes, then bigger ones again for V8s. But the truth is just about any old battery will start a six cylinder Cummins, and V8s aren't really much harder. But to kick over something like a 3 or 4 cyl Deutz diesel really takes a big battery or two, and the cables better be good and thick too or else they'll be smoking in no time. A six is much much easier to spin over. Which is why I think a starter and battery made for a good sized 4 cy diesel is a good choice for a bike. Good research work BTW.
 
Please forgive me for flooding this thread with my drivel - let me know if I'm annoying and I'll pull my head in. Quite a few years back I wrote a lengthy piece on building a six cylinder engine once very common in Australia, and anyway the last two pages were just generic engine building tips and thoughts. Some people found them interesting/entertaining so I'll attach them here - read or ignore as you wish.
 

Attachments

  • ADD.pdf
    68 KB · Views: 176
  • ADD2.pdf
    85.7 KB · Views: 614
Please forgive me for flooding this thread with my drivel - let me know if I'm annoying and I'll pull my head in. Quite a few years back I wrote a lengthy piece on building a six cylinder engine once very common in Australia, and anyway the last two pages were just generic engine building tips and thoughts. Some people found them interesting/entertaining so I'll attach them here - read or ignore as you wish.

John I have your “drivel” from the two stroke forum on your bultaco printed off and in a notebook. I had a morning quiet time for months memorizing chapter and verse. Always enjoy reading all things with the infernal combustion engine. Really enjoy seeing how you solved the problem with our bore and stroke by going to the ski doo cylinder. It was like getting a new revelation without having to drink the ayahuasca. There was a guy on a forum who told who told Frits and Thiel that he printed off there complete string and kept it by the toilet for reference. He meant it as a compliment but they didn’t take it that way. So my reference to the quiet time is with searching a sacred text not on the throne. Hopefully some of this “drivel” will be preserved for future generations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks, that's nice to know. But, the thing about the internet is that while it contains the sum of all human knowledge it also contains all of human stupidity, and there are no signs to help distinguish one from the other. I've had to go back and edit or delete a lot of stuff I've written cos it later turned out to be not quite right. In other words, don't take what I write as gospel, stay sceptical as you should with anything you find on the web.

Have you seen the stuff on youtube by Adegnes, search for twostrokestuffing? I think you'd enjoy it, I certainly do.
 
Thanks, that's nice to know. But, the thing about the internet is that while it contains the sum of all human knowledge it also contains all of human stupidity, and there are no signs to help distinguish one from the other. I've had to go back and edit or delete a lot of stuff I've written cos it later turned out to be not quite right. In other words, don't take what I write as gospel, stay sceptical as you should with anything you find on the web.

Have you seen the stuff on youtube by Adegnes, search for twostrokestuffing? I think you'd enjoy it, I certainly do.

I am subscribed and am waiting for him to put another video up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
The shop is clean! Well decided that maybe I needed to finish the swing arm with some gussets in anticipation of the ponies
IMG_6824.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkView attachment 225167
 
Last edited:
Remote starter... I went with the Summit OSGR 2.82 hp Hitachi starter. However
IMG_6832.jpg

It tested out at 2kw. Using a tractor solenoid push button. After doing my homework and reading Johns add this was the best value per Kw taking into account core charges. This had no core charge.
IMG_6837.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This is my starter cart. The big black tube at the back is the umbrella holder - it gets bloody hot waiting at the start line in leathers. The tape around the shaft lines up with the outside of the fairing when it's fully seated in the flywheel so the guy on the starter knows it's good to go. If you use the starter motors built-in solenoid you don't need a big heavy switch, a normal momentary push button will do.

cart.jpg
 
We've mentioned ignition systems before, just thought I'd show one of my favorite setups that's pretty much unbeatable from a bang-for-your-buck perspective. It's battery powered, which is something I like for a race bike as you get maximum spark energy from zero rpms. There's no need for a source coil, just a set of points or a Hall Effect pickup as a trigger. You can also use a two-wire mag pickup if you swap the module for a Bosch or Delco HEI unit. With the coil shown below you get a very high energy spark of long duration - certainly more energy than many "performance" systems - and they're simple and cheap.

All you need are three items: a battery, a coil, and a Ford TFI module. This is the battery I have used, it's nominally 14.8v but fully charged they're nearly 16v and this voltage gives extra energy.
s-l500.jpg

For the coil the Ford TFI coil is very hard to beat. I tested a variety of coils and these (along with the GM HEI coils) were top of the heap. Motorcycle coils - even performance ones - are generally anaemic. They work exceptionally well with either an inductive ignition system (like this one) or CDI. Incidentally quite a few aftermarket companies dress these up in a finned aluminum housing and sell them as a performance unit. The standard Ford item is exactly the same but cheaper.
coil.jpg

The module itself is a Ford TFI part, the grey version. The reliability problems they originally had have been ironed out; I haven't had any problems at all. They have current limiting built in so they'll run the big coil without the need for a ballast resistor. Mount it on a flat metal surface to help keep it cool. They'll trigger from a set of points, an optical sensor like a FAST or Unilite or a Hall Effect sensor. I'm old fashioned I guess but I like the simplicity and reliability of points, and if the bike originally had points you don't have to change anything. If you want to use a 2 wire pickup use a 4 pin GM module instead.
s-l1600 (1).jpg

Here's the wiring details, it's very simple. Don't forget to remove the condensor if you use points.
module.jpg

That's it. I don't know who came up with this originally - I first saw it on the advrider forums - but it's a good one. Plenty of power, cheap and parts available anywhere.
 
That is easy as 123. I experimented with the nova module which was triggered by the points earlier in this string but it was not robust enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The rear is an S but the Firestone front is not rated. Umm...

How fast is a 360 Bultaco going to go in 660'? Looks like a lot of fun. I think speed ratings are for sustained speeds?
Cheers, 50gary
 
The rear is an S but the Firestone front is not rated. Umm...

How fast is a 360 Bultaco going to go in 660'? Looks like a lot of fun. I think speed ratings are for sustained speeds?
Cheers, 50gary

Well if we can do the ton in the 1/8th mile. That should be the goal! That is 7.10 in the 1/8th. Zeke’s best is an 8.7 in the 1/8th. Thank you! like the way you think! Yep all show no go and it weighs 33lbs. It was a quick fix for the first time we raced. Didn’t have time to lace up some light stuff. Now it is getting serious. I have an 18” shouldered rim, Buchanan spokes, and a cb450 hub. Ordering a Sava Mc11 18X2.5 for the the front. It is speed rated to 90 something and we have used it on our first bike. BTW Slicks are not speed rated either. The new tire and wheel combo will be around 22 lbs. We should be around 24-26 for the rear even if we use the slick. Conservatively that should be 20 lbs off the rotational mass. We could go to a smaller hub on the front like a 175, and I have plenty of those around but I have the spokes and the cb450 has superior braking power if needed. Maybe etch some taco thumbs up in the 450 hub...just a thought. If we keep the slick we keep the circumference and target MPH now it is how quick we can get there. My best time in the 1/8th was a 10.4 with and I think I had an abysmal reaction time. That was with 26 whp and all that rotational mass.
IMG_6749.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Is there any reason why we can’t flip the cb450 hub to use the taco brake stay on the other side?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The competition is working on lightening his Ducati 900ss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top Bottom