The CL350 diet? How much can you lose?

[alexmac]

Realistically... how much weight can be taken off a Honda CL/CB350? Is it possible to
get the bike down to 300lbs?

What have you done? How much of a difference has it made?

 

[session101]

im trying to do the same, i took off most of the tabs, the center stand (that's a lot of weight), stock pegs, got rid of the battery box and stock seat. i have no clue how much im saving but if you think about it

stock seat is being replaced with a fiberglass cafe seat, less weight... your rear sets should be a lot lighter than the stock ones, even clip on's should be lighter than stock bars. rear fender will be gone also along withe the tail-light assembly. hoping the exhaust will be lighter too without the added weight of the heat guard. and the Air cleaner assembly to be replaced with pods instead, going with a dry battery also

i don't know how much more lighter you can go than that. maybe aluminum rims but that is a pretty penny right there

 

[VonYinzer]

The stock motor and frame on a 350 are in the 160lb range without a starter and gears. Exhaust pipes are 10 or so. Forks are 20ish. Wheels are maybe 60 with rubber. Clip ons/controls/cables are 3 or 4. Tank is close to 6 maybe. Glass seat is 4 without pad and cover.

 

[surffly]

Taking fenders off should be done with care....remember they are there for a reason. The back helps to keep crap out of the pods and the front acts as a fork brace and keeps things from flexing.

Its more about replacing things then just randomly taking stuff off.
Most dont do the best job because they dont want to spend the money.

Alloy rims are a huge savings because its unsprung rotating mass. Heard that the XS wheels can be used
Properly drilled brake hubs
Glass tank or carbon tank, not the BCR stuff but real light weight stuff
Smaller battery but NOT put under the seat as thats up high and negates the weight savings buy moving it so far from the center of mass
THe chain guard can be drilled.
Front fender replaced by a glass fender and alloy brace
Rear fender replaced by glass.

But really this isnt as helpful as modding the bike to actually work better.
Why not a larger front drum or dare i say it disks?
35mm for swap?
inch TALLER rear shocks

 

[Big R]

Speaking of which, where's your bike Swivel? That's right, you're FAR too busy building fantastic machines to take pictures of them. Yet you have more than enough time to hang out here on DTT and say that people here don't build proper bikes.

Put up or shut up man.

 

[Big R]

Whatever you say man. Obviously you have a camera (since you took pics of your vacation). But you can't take pictures of a project that is a mere "10 paces" away? And let's not make it sound like I'm the only person calling BS on you..........

To the OP: do a Google search for "ohiocaferacers" and check the site out. The guy is a member here as well, and has been racing the 350's so he knows them inside and out.

 

[Sonreir]

I'm not intimately familiar with the 350s, but I was able to shave my 360 down to 284 pounds (dry). I guess it's closer to 300 with all the fluids.

Here's a list of the things I removed or replaced. It's only from memory so there may be some extras. Check my build thread for details:

*Rear passenger pegs and frame mounts removed
*Stock airbox and intake system replaced with velocity stacks
*Battery and air box mounts removed
*Center stand mounts removed
*Chopped the rear and replaced with steel hoop
*Front fender removed (running just the brace)
*Rear fender removed and replaced with a thing brass sheet
*Stock seat and tail removed (along with the mounting tabs) and replaced with fiberglass
*Removed tach and horn
*Stock dash stripped off
*Wiring harness stripped out and replaced with custom wiring
*Replaced wind sail turn signals with small LED versions
*Stock 2:1 exhaust system replaced with lighter 2:2 version (Don't ask me, I have no idea why two pipes are lighter than a 2-into-1 system, but stock one was fuggin' heavy!)
*Stock bars replaced with steel clubmans (I'll go to clipons, eventually)

There was also a lot of assorted minor stuff like the move to forged pistons (11g saved, each), shaving the casting marks from the rocker arms (5g saved, each), and stonger valve springs with aluminum retainers (21g saved, each). Longer term plans to remove more weight include the move to aluminum wheels, venting the drums, drilling out the front sprocket cover, switch to aluminum rearsets (to grind more of the frame away), suspension upgrades, and more internal engine work (cutting the gears, balancing the crank, etc).

Here's a pile of stuff that came off my bike with only a few pieces going back on:

And here's how the bike currently sits:

Not the prettiest thing in the world, but very functional. That's why I choose the name SOS for my project, "Substance Over Style".

 

[crazypj]

You also 'lost' about a pound by boring cylinders 2mm oversize
Cast iron is pretty heavy stuff ;D

 

[alexmac]

Taking fenders off should be done with care....remember they are there for a reason. The back helps to keep crap out of the pods and the front acts as a fork brace and keeps things from flexing.

Its more about replacing things then just randomly taking stuff off.
Most dont do the best job because they dont want to spend the money.

Alloy rims are a huge savings because its unsprung rotating mass. Heard that the XS wheels can be used
Properly drilled brake hubs
Glass tank or carbon tank, not the BCR stuff but real light weight stuff
Smaller battery but NOT put under the seat as thats up high and negates the weight savings buy moving it so far from the center of mass
THe chain guard can be drilled.
Front fender replaced by a glass fender and alloy brace
Rear fender replaced by glass.

But really this isnt as helpful as modding the bike to actually work better.
Why not a larger front drum or dare i say it disks?
35mm for swap?
inch TALLER rear shocks

Now that's some good advice! Thanks dude!

 

[alexmac]

I'm not intimately familiar with the 350s, but I was able to shave my 360 down to 284 pounds (dry). I guess it's closer to 300 with all the fluids.

Not the prettiest thing in the world, but very functional. That's why I choose the name SOS for my project, "Substance Over Style".

So how does the bike ride now compared to before everything was modded(if it was running)?

 

[djelliott]

I havent weighed mine but I did remove a lot. I also added some though. Off the top of my head here's what got deleted.

Stock Seat
Peg and kick stand mount
Passenger pegs
Starter including the starter clutch
side panels and air filters
all stock gauges and signals
both fenders
stock ignition system
wiring harness
.......ummmmm......I'm sure there was more


Added Back or Swapped on:

Swapped entire front end for 1995 EX500 Front end
Aluminum rearsets built by DTT member Durgram_K
Big ole battery swapped for nice and light AGM battery
Mini Tach
clip ons
Dime City H4 headlight bucket
Rock City Fiberglass seat
Swapped tank for a CX500 Deluxe tank
velocity stacks

That's pretty close to most of it. She rides and handles great so I've never really been concerned about actual weight. Hmmmmm, now you have me curious.

 

[Sonreir]

So how does the bike ride now compared to before everything was modded(if it was running)?

I haven't really been able to put the hammer down too much and I'm still in the breaking-in and tuning phase, but I can already tell it's MUCH quicker. The weight savings was a big part of it, but my mods added around 10 horsepower, so it's difficult to say what it would feel like on a stock bike.

 

[surffly]

Christ ,..I thought I was clever! I bow down before the one I love. I think there needs to be a thread about actualy making a real cafe racer and not just building a bike that looks like a cafe racer like thing.A hell of a lot of people here don't seem to know the difference.

Everyone does what they like. Often new "builders" follow what they see on places like pipeburn and the lot. Some are just form and some are just function. I have seen some that are just form but thats fine, different strokes for different fokes. what is bad is when you see things that are not even working as motorcycles anymore, like to low and limiting suspension travel or hitting, pods with out the work, HUGE carbs for barn find engines. its at this point that people that do know should be around to help. but thats a topic for a different thread or differing place....

With trying to help the OP
-Think of things as a system IE engine, brakes, suspension.
NOT in terms of power, weight or bling.

Sure it sounds like you will lose a few pounds by going to pods, but are you capable of tunning them? or paying someone the few hours to do it? and then at that point what? you might....just might gain a HP or two...remember this is a 30hp motor....but is that at a useable RPM on the street? and worth the effort?

Lets face the facts for a second. Numbers will only really matter when racing next to another one of the same bikes. what i mean is you can have a 50hp race CB350 and still loose to another stock vintage bike when racing away from the lights. so whats the point?
Some will build for the sake of building and the challenge of improving what they have. This takes alot of time and money and its done for a love.
A different route would be to just improve the feel of the bike. I mean just do things that will put a smile on your face while riding.
As always a build should start with a 100% perfectly running stock bike.
Fork swap and longer rear shocks might be a nice place to start. Im not sure about weight on the swaps for the 350 but i know everyone that races these bikes runs 550/750 35mm forks. I do know that the 37mm GL forks are lighter then the 35mm CB750 forks. Brakes will help the fun factor by giving confidence while blasting around. The 550s are single front disk and easily upgraded to dual disks.
ect ect ect

 

[surffly]

Also the "butt dyno" is a strange thing

Ive seen to many people run super short cut pipes and claim they feel so much faster....
partly its noise and partly its a person wanting validation for a mod.

 

[surffly]

I would also be willing to bet that any gains come with a loss at some point in the RPM range....there is never a free lunch so to speak.

Its ALWAYS about give and take when changing anything on a motor vehicle. there are no magic bullets.

 

[surffly]

Also when talking about the weight thing its important to think about placement.
Ill never understand the trend of putting the battery under the seat cowl.....

Just a thought.....An average person can lift a 5gal bucket of water right? but they lift it close to their body right? its alot harder to hold that same bucket straight out arms length way....
same idea with a bike. centered is important.

 

[Sonreir]

It goes under the tail because it looks cleaner. If you switch to a smaller AGM battery, it's only a couple of pounds anyway.

 

[Nitsuj]

Christ ,..I thought I was clever! I bow down before the one I love. I think there needs to be a thread about actualy making a real cafe racer and not just building a bike that looks like a cafe racer like thing.A hell of a lot of people here don't seem to know the difference.

Lots of people in the motorcycle world in general don't know. Choppers, race bikes, sportbikes dirt bikes, whatever. People have lots of misconceptions. Some people do know but just don't care. Take me for instance. My cafe is being built to look how I want and be fun to ride. My garage also has a CBR 900rr, RZ350 and Duc1098 in it. If I wanted performance, I could get on any of those. Nothing I do to my 350f is being done because I think I'm going to turn it into a modern sportbike. I can bore it, stroke it and add nitrous, and it will be slower than my other bikes. I spent a good portion of my life as a motorcycle mechanic. I have the knowledge to know most of what to do and what not to do to get the most from my 350. But in the end, I have a look I'm going for, and to me that more important than unsprung weight and rotational mass.

When I worked as a mechniac, I'd guess 80% of the bikes people brought in that they had "modded" ran worse than they did stock. And sounded worse. I got a great story about a kid with an FZR1000, but I'll save that for another time.

Anyhow, my point is, lots of bikes are poorly built, lots of bikes are properly built, but maybe not built for optimum performance. It's a wild and wonderful world out there!

 

[alexmac]

of course you are right,Nitsuj

I my aim isn't to make this bike into a Ducati killer. My previous ride was a Yamaha R6... if I wanted that level of performance, I never would have bought a 350.

I really like a light bike... lighter the better because I am a small guy. I have always loved the old 1950s/1960s Italian racing bikes because of their very spartan nature. A minimalist type of motorcycle... that was quick even though they had very little horsepower.

I want my bike to emulate that ... but not at the cost of function.

 

[surffly]

I would rather ride a slow bike fast then a fast bike slow.