The old clip on vs ace bar discussion.

[koolio]

Apologies in advance if this has been discussed ad nauseam.

New to cafe racers but not to bikes, have been debating clip ons or ace bars in my mind, I have two issues.

1) Safety - Correct me if I'm wrong but my main concern about the clip ons is whether they are safe, if they are just bolted over the front forks there is nothing to stop them given enough force moving or sliding around the fork. And if you tighten the clip on too much you risk distorting the fork, (this is something I have had the unfortunate experience of when I by mistake overtightened a fork leg to a rubber vice, it was not too tight imo but even so the fork caved in ever so slightly).

For example these are exactly what I'm talking about below.

Ace bars in that respect are certainly more secure as where they mount is much more suitable to the physics of turning the front wheel.

The only way around this I see is clip ons that actually fix to the two large nuts at the top of the forks (like on a BSA Goldstar for example).

2) Practicality - This is specific to me really, I have a CB500T which is my mild cafe race project, so I will not be fitting a seat cowl or rear sets or going OTT. The fuel tank isn't too high and I'll have the original seat so I can be two up on the bike, so given both these factors it won't be the best for lying flat on, so I'm not sure which would be more suited ace bars or clip ons.

I need the bike to be as practical as possible and I would like to be able to do long distance on it. I do understand ace bars or clip ons aren't the most comfortable, but I'd like the more comfortable of the two.

I'd welcome your thoughts

 

[chilli]

I'm sure someone will chime in with more specific knowledge than I. But the clamps on clips ons basically use the same principle as your triples to grip the forks.... It's a relatively large surface area that's "holding" the fork. If they're torqued correctly I don't see how there'd be any problem.

As for practicality/comfort, that's probably something only you can decide. Some can go for miles on clip-ons and have no probs, others not. Think it depends on how you ride, how tall you are etc.

 

[t71ford]

Sounds to me like you would be better suited with a drag bar than with clip-ons or clubs. Both give about the same riding position, which is IMO not really all that great with stock seats and peg locations, especially for long distance/ two up riding. Drag bars are a lower profile than stock, allow improved handling, and still afford some comfort to the rider.

I sold my bike that was set up just like you are talking (clubs/ stock seat/ stock pegs) this spring for the very comfort/ practical issues you mention. I have since gone to a bike that I can long distance on, and one that is low barred and single passenger for performance.

Someone may need an additional bike... ;D

 

[teazer]

Both good answers. Those are nice looking old school clip ons that do clamp around the forks and will not rotate if they are the correct size and there is no way that they could distort a fork tube.

Ace/clubman bars are bars that create the same riding position as clip ons but use the stock mounting points. They were originally designed to circumvent some race series rules back in the day. They are rarely at the correct height or angle, but that's a whole other story.

CLip ons are really good for that lie on the tank, stretched out, cheat the wind riding position, but not so good with a passenger.

Darg bars or vincent "straights" are a good alternative - almost flat so they are closer to clip ons but not as back breaking, wrist snapping. Another alternative are Superbike bars which are more like Euro spec low bars. Slightly taller that drag bars but much lower than stock and OK with a passenger. A great choice for most people on most bikes.

You could also fit motocross bars for a different look. They are a similar height as Superbike bars but come in cool colors.

 

[crazypj]

Sounds to me like you would be better suited with a drag bar than with clip-ons or clubs. Both give about the same riding position, which is IMO not really all that great with stock seats and peg locations, especially for long distance/ two up riding. Drag bars are a lower profile than stock, allow improved handling, and still afford some comfort to the rider.

I sold my bike that was set up just like you are talking (clubs/ stock seat/ stock pegs) this spring for the very comfort/ practical issues you mention. I have since gone to a bike that I can long distance on, and one that is low barred and single passenger for performance.

Someone may need an additional bike... ;D

If your keeping stock footrests, you really would be better off with higher bars(clubman/Ace, drag or 'Euro' bars)
REARSETS DON'T GIVE YOU A BAD BACK
Bad ergonomics give you a bad back (and 'outside' injuries ;D )
My back is really messed up from picking up bottom end of a HD big twin awquardly several years ago, but, clip on's and rearsets are actually real comfortable for my back, (but my neck will be pretty stiff as I'm/you are constantly 'looking up')
Wrists are also a 'weak point', at least until your 6-pack comes back (or you travel everywhere at 70+ 8) )

 

[beachcomber]

1) Safety - Correct me if I'm wrong but my main concern about the clip ons is whether they are safe, if they are just bolted over the front forks there is nothing to stop them given enough force moving or sliding around the fork. And if you tighten the clip on too much you risk distorting the fork, (this is something I have had the unfortunate experience of when I by mistake overtightened a fork leg to a rubber vice, it was not too tight imo but even so the fork caved in ever so slightly).

2) Practicality - This is specific to me really, I have a CB500T which is my mild cafe race project, so I will not be fitting a seat cowl or rear sets or going OTT. The fuel tank isn't too high and I'll have the original seat so I can be two up on the bike, so given both these factors it won't be the best for lying flat on, so I'm not sure which would be more suited ace bars or clip ons.

I need the bike to be as practical as possible and I would like to be able to do long distance on it. I do understand ace bars or clip ons aren't the most comfortable, but I'd like the more comfortable of the two.

I'd welcome your thoughts

I can assure you there is NO problem with the method of fitting clip ons - ask anybody who has been hanging on a set over the Mountain Mile at the TT !!!!!!!!!!

You would never distort a fork tube by tightening the clip on due to the relative thickness / strength of the tube vs clip on.

As to practicalities, given the riding style you describe - I would go with t71 Ford - Drag Bars seem better suited.

If you want the era look of clip-ons, there are the so called "Swan Neck" version [ Rickman Interceptors, etc.] which bring the bar of the clip-on much higher. Not much point other than looks - as the bar is then the same height as Ace or Drag bars !!!!!

 

[koolio]

Thanks everyone

Both give about the same riding position, which is IMO not really all that great with stock seats and peg locations, especially for long distance/ two up riding.

I suppose I quite like the BSA Goldstar vein where there are clip-ons but also a standard seat, never been much a of a seat cowl person.

IMO while most people say Ace bars/clip-ons etc. are uncomfortable, have they tried doing long distances upright? Believe me with out a fairing you feel like your neck has whiplash at the end of the day, thats another reason why I want to go Ace bars/Clip-ons to get a lower down position.

TBH I've looked at some other bars but really it has to be either Ace bars, clip-ons or at a push M-bars.

 

[midnightcafe]

nothing unsafe about clipons, they are split-style clamps. Torque them properly and they won't budge. Look at the decades of safe application on sportbikes. As always, rearsets are a must with forward bars, otherwise you'll be in pain everywhere you go.

 

[koolio]

nothing unsafe about clipons, they are split-style clamps. Torque them properly and they won't budge. Look at the decades of safe application on sportbikes. As always, rearsets are a must with forward bars, otherwise you'll be in pain everywhere you go.

Fair point with the safety.

Quite right I just tried emulating different handle bars heights, the clip ons would make me have to bend over quite some bit.

Odd that BSA Goldstars came stock I believe with clip-ons yet no rear sets (not sure if they had such a thing back then). E.g.

 

[lassenc]

Look again, the position of the footrests are quite a long way back. In relation of to the tank and seat, I don't think the clipons are that low. The headlight makes it look so I believe.

 

[koolio]

Look again, the position of the footrests are quite a long way back. In relation of to the tank and seat, I don't think the clipons are that low. The headlight makes it look so I believe.

Hmmm they're only about half a foot back from the position of a CB500T, but I suppose the Goldie was a pure race bike for its time so comfort was 0 factor.

 

[crazypj]

Hmmm they're only about half a foot back from the position of a CB500T, but I suppose the Goldie was a pure race bike for its time so comfort was 0 factor.

Uhhh, No.
Stock footrests on BSA were around 14~18" further forward and at least 3~4" lower, (between gearbox and crankcase)
The entire bike is physically smaller than a 500T, probably close in size to a KZ400? (it's bigger than a CB360 ;D )

 

[koolio]

Uhhh, No.
Stock footrests on BSA were around 14~18" further forward and at least 3~4" lower, (between gearbox and crankcase)
The entire bike is physically smaller than a 500T, probably close in size to a KZ400? (it's bigger than a CB360 ;D )

Yes the bike is smaller, not sure about 14-18" forward. But it doesn't look like the foot rests are between the gearbox and crankcase on the photo below.

In any case shouldn't that make the bike less suited to clip-ons as I suggested before? And still it was done.

 

[crazypj]

Not quite what I meant.
On a stock BSA B31/B33/ A7/A10 etc, the footrests are between gearbox and crankcase with about 6"total adjustment (3" either way, they are 'L' shaped, bolt through 'top' of 'L')
That' s a DBD34 'Gold Star' and footrests are way further rearwards.
You couldn't use swept back pipe on stock frame without removing footrest mountings, they are roughly where bottom bend of pipe is in pic (taper fitting sticks out about an inch)

 

[beachcomber]

Actually there's about 6" difference between the 2 mounting points.
Attached are pix of stock OEM position.

back to clip-ons - essentially and originally for racing to allow the rider to reduce the frontal area - before fairings came in.

When used for the road there are 2 points to bear in mind. Firstly they were used for "the look" - secondly for the same reason as racers.

As to the comfort on long trips. depends on the velocity ! If you travel anything over 60mph with clip-ons then the body is supported by the air stream. The reverse of this is try doing 100mph with straight or OEM bars and then your arms being have the feeling of being ripped out of the shoulder sockets! At pedestrian speeds and around town, just something you put up with - until you get to the open road - which is primarily the reason for riding your bike?? [ OK - 2 % for commuting ].

 

[Tim]

Funny thing while riding my XS the other day on a too-long commute to work, I was seriously considering ditching my adjustable Tomaselli clip-ons in favor of clubman or ace bars, which would benefit from being rubber mounted in the stock XS risers.

The vibrations on the XS are just killer and make me want to bin the thing. I now have an Airhawk seat pad that mounts easily and has saved my ass (literally), so now it's my feet and hands I need to sort.

 

[hillsy]

You will snap the bolts on a set of clip-ons before they squash the forks.


Just my belated $0.02

 

[SquadraCorse]

When I had my GS450 I put high rise Tarozzi clip-ons on it. This allowed me to run the bars at a height similar to a drag bar, get the clip on look and feel, and not ride hunched over and awkward with the stock foot pegs. Plus if you go to rear sets you can adjust them to suit the riding position better.

 

[midnightcafe]

Funny thing while riding my XS the other day on a too-long commute to work, I was seriously considering ditching my adjustable Tomaselli clip-ons in favor of clubman or ace bars, which would benefit from being rubber mounted in the stock XS risers.

The vibrations on the XS are just killer and make me want to bin the thing. I now have an Airhawk seat pad that mounts easily and has saved my ass (literally), so now it's my feet and hands I need to sort.

Tim, can you link a picture of the seat pad? I'm looking for the exact same product for my bike-1" of neoprene foam starts hurting after 100 miles

 

[jake1113]

here's my 2cents being 5'9 and festivley plump i find stock peg location and clubmans very comfy, but each rider has personel perefrence, thats the great thing about building a custom of any terminology ie cafe, bobber, chopper, you build for you and then it's always comfortable.