Vintage Fox Factory Superbike Shox vs Marzocchi vs new Hagon 2810 or YSS Z-362
- Thread starter Chuck78
- Start date
o1marc
Over 1,000 Posts
I was there. I was a Winston Cup Scoring Official from 85-89 till I started racing myself and Nascar told me I could be a driver/owner or official but not both. I spent the next 20 years racing a local Nascar short track. I've known Bill, Dan and Ernie since 1985. I moved to their neck of the woods in 1993 when I bought a house 9/10 mile from the Elliott compound.Nebr_Rex said:
o1marc
Over 1,000 Posts
Ernie is one of the most cantankerous old farts you'll ever meet. It's rare that you find him when he isn't pissed off about something. But he did give us the engine we set the world record with (5 times) in the Nash Metropolitan. He is officially retired, sold his engine shop a couple of weeks ago. He is a wizard at building engines that make power. Our engine is a used Dodge Sprint Cup motor, 367ci, makes 900hp @9K rpm (2.5hp/ci)with a carburetor (850 Demon) on gasoline.Nebr_Rex said:
Chuck78
Been Around the Block
Unfortunately I just got the resilts calculated for the stock gs1100e shock springs I am riding, also progressive rate, and the initial rate on them is 102 lbs/in, & they are too soft! Good news is that Thor Lawson at Evolution Suspension has some trashed "for parts" fox shox and has some stiffer 2-3/4" blue springs that will bump the rate of mine above the oem Suzuki springs. Thor saves the day! I might be able to get him to have his shaft source machinist make up a set of shafts to my spec shox as well.
Chuck78
Been Around the Block
Well, Thor is checking to see what stiffer blue 2-3/4" springs he has used, but he said he has a set stiffer than mine. If he had the stiffest .306" wire diameter, I'd arrive at 109 lbs/in initial, and then 133 lbs/in and then 147 lbs/in as the progressive coils bottom out. I didn't figure the travel involved, but with a stiffer Blue Spring, the red spring will travel more, so it should arrive at those higher figures a bit faster. The next wire diameter down would also be a bit stiffer, so I am hoping for those. The third wire diameter down would give me about the same rate as my stock oem suzuki springs, which I deemed too soft at initial compression. They are also progressive, however.
I suppose I could try and shorten my OEM springs slightly, and put them in a bucket of ice water while heating up the cut end to bend one coil flat to meet up with the preload retainer flush. I do like, however, that the fox springs have far less coils, therefore they will be lighter. Even with the external piggyback reservoir, they are lighter than my OEM shocks.
I'll be checking with him on what 7.5" red springs he has also. I suppose I could contact Hagon or someone, and get some used exchanged springs, but I would feel better putting original Fox paired springs on the Fox Shox, even if I had to repaint them.
I suppose I could try and shorten my OEM springs slightly, and put them in a bucket of ice water while heating up the cut end to bend one coil flat to meet up with the preload retainer flush. I do like, however, that the fox springs have far less coils, therefore they will be lighter. Even with the external piggyback reservoir, they are lighter than my OEM shocks.
I'll be checking with him on what 7.5" red springs he has also. I suppose I could contact Hagon or someone, and get some used exchanged springs, but I would feel better putting original Fox paired springs on the Fox Shox, even if I had to repaint them.
hope you don't mind a few pics finally got mine done 
they are 13" ers
total repaint,all new seals/orings, new bumpers,the guts were in excellent shape otherwise
these had knackered shafts.i picked up another pair on the cheap,remote res not piggies,and shafts were identical (now i need to make a pair of shafts for the remotes)
i took a fine skim cut off the seal gland od and face to pretty them up
the springs and bodies gor media al-oxide blasted,then rattle-can paint,ford red engine paint and deep blue
the silver gray is stainless steel color i like it
made a seal bullet shaft cover dealy bob to ease pushing seal head over shaft
i am very happy they look the business
they are 13" ers
total repaint,all new seals/orings, new bumpers,the guts were in excellent shape otherwise
these had knackered shafts.i picked up another pair on the cheap,remote res not piggies,and shafts were identical
(now i need to make a pair of shafts for the remotes)i took a fine skim cut off the seal gland od and face to pretty them up
the springs and bodies gor media al-oxide blasted,then rattle-can paint,ford red engine paint and deep blue
the silver gray is stainless steel color i like it
made a seal bullet shaft cover dealy bob to ease pushing seal head over shaft
i am very happy they look the business
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Chuck78
Been Around the Block
Nice, thanks for the pictures! That "bullet" tool you made looks very very handy for that job, and makes me wish I had my own lathe.
I'm gonna place an order shortly for a shaft and all the seals, high pressure valve cores, and probably sealhead bearings and maybe piston rings. Definitely want the stainless steel/teflon lined spherical eye bearings to match the eye bearings in my GS1100E swing arm (clevis on the bottom of the shock). Still not sure on the springs though, as I think these will be slightly softer than OEM initially but slightly stiffer than OEM at 3" of travel (OEM Suzuki shocks have a lot of THICK-wired coils). Going to hit up Thor again for more detailed info on what used springs he has, and have been shopping for some springs on ebay in the 10-1/4" length range to just get one spring that has the rate I want. I'd rather keep the original Fox look however if I can get something from Thor.
What was Fox's original intention of offering two stacked springs? Just to make fine tuning more possible? Or is there a reason the small blue spring is much softer (thinner wire diameter)? I was thinking of trying to get the stiffest of the blue springs that I could get from Thor if he has something appropriate. I
I'm gonna place an order shortly for a shaft and all the seals, high pressure valve cores, and probably sealhead bearings and maybe piston rings. Definitely want the stainless steel/teflon lined spherical eye bearings to match the eye bearings in my GS1100E swing arm (clevis on the bottom of the shock). Still not sure on the springs though, as I think these will be slightly softer than OEM initially but slightly stiffer than OEM at 3" of travel (OEM Suzuki shocks have a lot of THICK-wired coils). Going to hit up Thor again for more detailed info on what used springs he has, and have been shopping for some springs on ebay in the 10-1/4" length range to just get one spring that has the rate I want. I'd rather keep the original Fox look however if I can get something from Thor.
What was Fox's original intention of offering two stacked springs? Just to make fine tuning more possible? Or is there a reason the small blue spring is much softer (thinner wire diameter)? I was thinking of trying to get the stiffest of the blue springs that I could get from Thor if he has something appropriate. I
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
Chuck78
Been Around the Block
Finally tore apart my Fox Factory Shox to measure for a new shaft, but I had a question. The seal or piston ring around the damper assembly doesnt look anything like the cast iron rings that thor sells, and they appear to be a flexible seal like a piece of leather I've seen in some old pumps before, but it has a metallic feel like a flexible refrigerator magnet or something upon a quick initial glance, but the ends dont butt up against each other, there is a big gap (see my photo attachment at bottom). Thor's site mentioned that road versions and early off-road shox need machined to accept his cast iron piston rings that fit the later MX Factory Shox.
What's the deal with the piston ring or seal that I am seeing? Looks more like the pieces that he sells for $20/pair "Reservoir piston rings", which look like flat strips in the photo:
I haven't taken the reservoir apart yet to check that out, but I was really wondering what the deal was with the valve assembly piston ring/seal.
What's the deal with the piston ring or seal that I am seeing? Looks more like the pieces that he sells for $20/pair "Reservoir piston rings", which look like flat strips in the photo:
I haven't taken the reservoir apart yet to check that out, but I was really wondering what the deal was with the valve assembly piston ring/seal.
Attachments
i would just reuse them as long as they are in good shape
what they are is a "glide ring" they don't seal 100%, but a little bleed is ok in a shock piston
the strips for the res piston are used in conjunction with an oring because a 100% seal on the res piston is a must
what they are is a "glide ring" they don't seal 100%, but a little bleed is ok in a shock piston
the strips for the res piston are used in conjunction with an oring because a 100% seal on the res piston is a must
Chuck78
Been Around the Block
xb33bsa said:
But are they supposed to have that large of a gap? It appears to be 5/16"-3/8" gap!
From Thor's website:
FOX FACTORY SHOX PISTON RING, coated cast iron ring with step cut, fits main cylinder piston that is grooved for o-ring expander usually found in off-road versions, early pistons without the o-ring groove and road versions will need to be machined to upgrade, shop charge $30 for pair, made slightly over size for cylinders that have been honed, will require slight filing or Dremel cutting of ring ends to custom fit. #95-0120, $25.00 each
Is that the same thing but the newer/offroad version? that text goes with thor's photo in the middle above with the step cut ends on the piston rings.
Chuck78
Been Around the Block
If that's the case, I believe Thor says that the damper assembly needs machined to accept these rings, and the main cylinders need honed, then the ring end gaps file/dremel fit to proper size. Maybe I'm best off shipping them to thor...I have a good machinist friend, but maybe that is best left to Thor who knows how they need cut & modified. He is very busy now it seems though.
i would assume they use a sunnen hone to get a dead straight and round fresh body so as to be nice to the new cast ring
the strip used on the original that you have is common stuff for the hydraulics industry you should be able to source it,get some new stock and cut it to fit or get an already sized piece
what are the dimensions ?
the strip used on the original that you have is common stuff for the hydraulics industry you should be able to source it,get some new stock and cut it to fit or get an already sized piece
what are the dimensions ?
