Welding 101, Anyone? we need an instructor.

diesel450

diesel450

"Fast with a past"
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Okay, So, I like to bite off way more than I can chew. But I hate, hate, hate having to have anyone else do anything for me on my projects. This brings me to welding. There are a lot of guys here who do their own and a lot of guys who don't. I also get the sense that there are a lot of guys who want to do their own.

Me for one! ;D. Any chance we could get some guys who know this stuff to lay out some info on how to get started and I don't mean, "go on down to the local tech college and take a class. I mean "oh, you want to fuck around with shit that could kill you?! COOL! Here's what you do."

For what we typically do with bikes what do we need for gear and how much should it run? Then maybe some tutorials on how to get started. from there its my old frind trial and error.

Thanks for any help.

Diesel
 
The easiest welding method to start out with (IMO, of course) is MIG, and it can handle just about anything you need done on a bike.

My suggestion would be to get the best machine you can afford and go from there. If you have, or can easily install, a 240V circuit in your garage, go with one of those units. You can make do with a 120V welder but, in order to get good welds, you'll need to use thinner wire and preheat the metal because it just won't get hot enough in most cases. They suffer from a short duty cycle too.

Most MIG machines are also set up for FCAW which is basically, gass-less wire (flux-core). It may be tempting to use FCAW because you don't need to invest in a gas cylinder or take it to get refilled constantly. IMO, FCAW is very difficult to master and tedious to use. It's more sensitive to voltage changes, makes hideous welds, has to have the slag cleaned off after every weld and emits toxic gases from the burning flux that turn you into a shivering, headachey mess if you do it for too long.

Other equipment you will need is a welding helmet (I prefer the auto-darkening kind), gas cylinder, regulator, gas, some decent leather gloves and maybe a welding cart. Then it's practice, practice, practice. Read as much as you can, play with the voltage and wire feed levels, make sure your metal is super-clean and you should be able to make acceptable welds in no time.

There are other welding methods like stick welding, oxy-acetylene torch welding, TIG etc. which I'm sure others will chime in about.
 
I built a car from scratch and two bikes with a little 110 MIG welder. It worked great--even on some of the thicker stuff. If you're new to welding, MIG is the way to learn. And, yes, get a gas setup. In all, you're looking at around $500 to get started. Some things to note about MIG. Welding thin sheet--like 18ga and under--sucks with MIG. Yes, it can be done (I've done it) but it sucks. Also, I would not even bother trying to MIG aluminum. That's just stupid.

I've since switched to TIG and use that method exclusively now. A bit of a learning curve, but I'll never go back to another process. It really is the best. To get a TIG setup, you're looking at around $2k used. Plus you need a 220 drop.

As far as how to learn, buy a machine and start laying shit welds. Post some pics and ask a bunch of questions. That's the best way to learn. I learned by reading a ton and practicing for months before I even started welding up the car chassis I built. I had quite a few hours of track time in that car and never had a weld failure.

And not to hurt anyone's feelings, but i personally would not be asking welding advise from this group. Yeah, there are a few who get it but I see a lot of questionable welds on this forum.

--Chris
 
Now thats what I'm talking about. I spent a couple of hours reading welding info but this information helps focus me on what I need to be looking for. Thanks. You see those little 110 units on ebay for like $100 is that just a waste of money, or can you get started learning that way? Lincoln electric makes a unit for $360. I think I'll stop in at the welding supply shop and make a fool of myself with questions.
 
The Miller Electric site has some good articles on getting started and identifying what's wrong with specific welds (http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/improving-your-skills/mig/) & (http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/tech_tips/MIG_tips/). Definitely start with MIG, and buy the best machine you can afford. Full disclosure - I do public relations work for Miller.
 
You already mentioned it, but welding distributors are a much better resource for equipment and information than a Lowes/Home Depot/etc.
 
diesel450 said:
Now thats what I'm talking about. I spent a couple of hours reading welding info but this information helps focus me on what I need to be looking for. Thanks. You see those little 110 units on ebay for like $100 is that just a waste of money, or can you get started learning that way? Lincoln electric makes a unit for $360. I think I'll stop in at the welding supply shop and make a fool of myself with questions.
Click to expand...
Honestly, $100 is what you should spend on your welding helmet, not your welder. Stick with a well-known brand like Lincoln, Miller or Hobart. If you can't afford more, look into the Clarke MIG welders, or switch gears and go with a quality stick welder. That little Lincoln Handy MIG might get you started but you will outgrow it quickly. Also, see if you can find one with a continuous voltage dial so you can manage the heat more precisely.
 
I've never used a miller product, but when my TIG dies, I'm switching to Miller. At a minimum, buy a Lincoln SP135. Eventually, you'll want to move to TIG, but it works pretty well for most things.

What's your budget?

I also have a nice Miller auto-darkening shield. Those are important when you get started, but now I wish i would have gotten a fixed lense for TIG.

--Chris
 
I bought that little inverter TIG from Harbor Freight for 200 bucks and it's been a lot of fun. It doesn't have a pedal or HF start or any of that, but I bought it mainly to teach myself to weld.
I went to the local welding shop and told them what I wanted to do and they hooked me up with a helmet and plenty of wire. (i got the regulator from HF).

I used to post on a chopper site in a fab. forum and dudes were super helpful, with a little ball breaking but that's to be expected.

I want a MIG setup, but I'm wondering if it'd be a better use of money to get a Oxy/Ac setup??? That way I can do Alum. plus bend metal or make cuts, etc....

Chris, the 110v welder hold up pretty good? I thought the duty cycle on those things sucked?
 
Just a general FYI, you CAN weld Aluminum with a MIG. You need a different shielding gas mix and a spool gun. Also, metal prep is slightly different. TIG'ing aluminum is preferred over MIG for the same reasons as welding steel: Infinite control and neater welds.
 
Good info, I hear you on the $100 units. Wishful thinking. Honestly I'm not sure what the budget is yet. I'm selling this R5 when its done and I will probably take the money from that and get the garage set up right. ;)

I'm not too worried about outgrowing a basic unit as I'd rather get started as cheaply as is reasonable and with out major electrical upgrades to the house etc. and see where it goes. Right off I'm looking to be able to do my own frame mods etc. on bikes and that is about it. Who knows where it will go from there. I'm going to talk to the folks at Advantage gases and tools here in rainy Portland and see what they say. They sell new and used/refurbished equipment so I might get a deal.
 
if you guys are interested in a 110 unit take a look at the hobart 140. i did alot of research on 110 units and bought this one after so many recomendations. great little machine and can take care of most anything on these bikes.
 
I am very new to welding, but I recently bought a Campbell Hausfeld WS0970 115-Volt 70 Amp Arc Stick Welder
http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-WS0970-115-Volt-Welder/dp/B0009KEZXY
I was able to get it for like $80 at a pepboys auto parts store. I am still learning a lot, but I like stick welding and entry level machines are very afordable. Harbor Freight also has a lot of cheap arc welders. I have done some welding on my frame and it seems to be pretty sturdy and work well for general welding and fabricating on the frame. It takes some time to get use to but I would recommend it to beginning welders. Arc welding can also be useful to get into tight places on the frame.
 
saw this link, thought of this thread, seems a pretty comprehensive guide, though i haven't watched any.

http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_491_mig-weld.html
 
It took me quite a long time (maybe a year) to lay down quality welds. But I think a skill that is just as important is the ability to tell a good weld from a bad one. That takes some understanding and experience. Without it your screwed (or whomever the unluckly sole that buys work from someone who can't tell a good weld from bad) So Obviously, weld failure is not an option.

I'd say read all that you can, spend as much time watching a seasoned welder weld, and ask as many questions as that person can handle, then ask more. Spend a bunch of time practicing on stuff that doesn't matter, then when you start welding stuff that weld failure is not an option, make sure to have a seasoned welder help you. I hope I'm not sounding like a dick, but I mean well ;D
 
troybilt said:
It took me quite a long time (maybe a year) to lay down quality welds. But I think a skill that is just as important is the ability to tell a good weld from a bad one. That takes some understanding and experience. Without it your screwed (or whomever the unluckly sole that buys work from someone who can't tell a good weld from bad) So Obviously, weld failure is not an option.

I'd say read all that you can, spend as much time watching a seasoned welder weld, and ask as many questions as that person can handle, then ask more. Spend a bunch of time practicing on stuff that doesn't matter, then when you start welding stuff that weld failure is not an option, make sure to have a seasoned welder help you. I hope I'm not sounding like a dick, but I mean well ;D
Click to expand...

This is good advice. Something that helped me distinguish between good welds and bad welds that looked nice on top was to practice on steel bar stock, then cut the workpiece with a band saw so I could see the cross-section of the weld. If you sandblast or etch it clean with acid you can see how far the weld actually penetrated and adjust your settings or technique accordingly.
 
Troybuilt,

That's good advice. rest assured that I am a careful and thorough person that understands that there is no room for excuses with certain kinds of work. I am also a self starter and someone who wants to learn as many different skills as possible. I may not master them all but I will know which ones I have and which ones I haven't. I'm not interested in learning this so that I can start throwing shoddy work out there. I've already done enough research to know that I will probably take a class, to be thorough with what I need to know and to shorten the learning curve.
 
Cool man. Glad I didn't offend you. Sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders and already are on your way. I think you will have a blast welding. Good luck
Troybilt
 
Diesel,

Here are a couple of additional resources to get you started and motivated:

1. I always go to the Welding Web Forum for inspiration, equipment advice and critiques on welding. These guys are very helpful. http://www.weldingweb.com

2. The Miller and Lincoln sites have plenty of information. Lincoln, http://www.lincolnelectric.com has a download manual GMAW Welding Guide that is vey comprehensive.

3. Books - here are a few:

- Performance Welding Handbook by Richard Finch
- Welder's Handbook by Richard Finch
- How do Weld Damn Near Anything by Richard Finch and yes......Jesse James
- Modern Welding by Althouse, Turnquist and Bowditch. This is a text book and I don't recommend it unless you really get into welding and want to understand the chemistry and physics, materials, as well as techniques.


Check out the welding web site first.

Scott
 
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