what a difference fifty years makes

carnivorous chicken said:
Having actually been to Cuba, I would argue that it's possible to spend most of one's money to benefit private individuals and not the state, if one is in the know. And yes, it's a politically terrible dictatorship, but it's not as competely repressive as others that I have been to or worked in. People shouldn't forget that international politics are complicated, and the US (and the anti-Castro lobby in Florida) are also partly to blame for the miserable conditions in Cuba as well -- Castro appealed to the US for help in ousting Batista, just as Ho Chi Minh appealed to the US in 1945 to help end French colonialism. Trying to portray situations such as this in strictly black and white terms doesn't produce many helpful answers, and demonizing Cuba and Cubans won't help either. As soon as Fidel and Raul are gone, I predict some rapid change between the relationship of the US and Cuba.

Amazing old bikes and cars, by the way. I thought it'd be great when the embargo falls to try to go buy some old stuff up, but the prices are higher there than what one would find in the US.
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Castros cardinal sin was putting nukes in this hemisphere. Americans do not forget shit like that. One of my favorite passages in the Boomer Bible is in Yanks: Yanks will get you back... forever. Ha! Better dead than red, I always say.
 
I often wonder how things would be if we had helped Castro and his revolution overturn Batista.
 
Swivel said:
Sick people bankrupt with no teeth and who can't read.Like Alabama.

*Like we could have helped Ho Chi Mihn when he asked for help to oust the French.

.........FUNNY OL' HISTORY!.......... ::)
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missed ya swiv what new. [list type=decimal]
[*]cigar burns from drunk mom
[*]torn stiches in daddy special lovehole
[/list]
*it dosent matter what ever it was i hope it hurt

...............funny ol' hate you a bunch!.............. ::)
 
Rider52 said:
I often wonder how things would be if we had helped Castro and his revolution overturn Batista.
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really you often wonder about that? my god you must be a hit with the ladies.

lucky lady and rider52 conversation over a candle lit dinner

lucky lady: "rider52....RIDER52 are you even listening to me"
rider52: "whats that dear i,...i. never mind you wouldnt understand"
lucky lady: "rider let me in that head, let me help you"
ride52 : "no, this isnt your fight!" "it, its been on my mind i,i NO nevermind
lucky lady: "IM NOT GONNA SIT HERE AND ACT LIKE EVERYTHING IS FINE DAMIT RIDER52 TALK TO ME"
rider52 : "its its"
lucky lady (cutting him off) "what another woman ARE YOU DRUNK I KNOW I SHOULD OF LISTEN ED TO MY MOTHER"
rider52: "no it a well i some times think about things, thats all"
lucky lady: "things what do you mean things"
rider52: "you know the batista revolution"
lucky lady: "WHAT THE!!!"
rider52: "like what if the american wouldve helped castro"
luckyl lady: " this...THIS IS, THAT WHAT? I AHHH I FUCKING BOUGHT THIS DRESS FOR TONIGHT, I GOT MY NAILS DONE SPECIAL FOR TONIGHT!!! I WAS GOING TO SHARE MY BODY!, BUT NO YOUR SITTING
OVER THERE THINKING ABOUT BATISTA"
rider52: " baby please"
lucky lady: "dont talk to me your gonna buy me dinner and give me cab fair and dont call me again, WAITER ill have the lobster"
rider52: "every time.....damit"
lucky lady: "shut the fuck up and watch me spend your money creep"
rider52: (thinking to him self) she likes me i know it but i wonder what the world would be like if castro..........


and cut that a wrap
 
A mate of mine went to Cuba a few years ago and one of the things that struck him was that the Cubans at least stuck to their ideals, it didn't matter if you were a doctor or a farmer they were in it together, they also have health care which puts many richer countries to shame. In the UK we have what has been called an elected dictatorship, once in power they make the rules which we must obey, real democracy. The Terrorism Bill, curbs on freedom of speech in the name of political correctness and religious/ethnic harmony, ignoring the majorities concerns over mass immigration and the growing power of the EU, show that our leaders have little interest in real democracy, global capitalism has been accepted as the only way by most western powers, Karl Marx would have loved.
In the US there are similar problems, the Patriot Act, mass immigration from Latin America and curbs on freedom of expression in the name of social harmony.
I admire countries like Cuba, not for their politics, but because they have tried to stick to their ideals and original vision whereas western countries are eroding real democracy, the Russians have elected a mad dictator, China treats it's citizens like s**t and promotes rampant global capitalism with little respect for the planet or the people it uses, and yet still pretends to be a communist state, and most African countries are blighted by corruption and violence. None of us have the moral high ground while we cherry pick which totalitarian states to deal with, the biggest threat to future world piece comes from China and the Middle East, yet we bend over backwards for these countries, even allowing them to buy into out countries, Cuba in the scheme of things is insignificant.
 
Tell me " pinko is dead" you don't have any Chinese stuff (PRC label in Europe) on your bike, in your house or on you back and I won't say you support "communism. " Free elections", right, like the ones in Saudi Arabia or the UAE (or other Muslim countries) where you may be able to vote as long as you have a dick, are a Muslim and Saudi/UAE born. But use their oil. Who give a crap, half their population can't drive a car or go outside without a man.
Buy from China,Vietman other places where they make cheap shit, for barely subsistence pay, to help put working people in the US and the "frozen Canukistan"( Roberts or Buchanan call us that), out of work. Don't see any stuff saying Made in Cuba at anti-union pro Asian merchandise Walmart now do you. Clean your own house and personal act, of Chinese-like, dictatorship originating cheap stuff before ranting about shit. Fucking Commie sympathizer. ( If you buy PRC shite.)
 
Have you seen my bike che? it 100% union built go back to your iced coffee drink at your wifi hot spot
 
Since the Cold War ended, most hardline Communist countries have opened up to the west and adopted a free market system especially China. The only 2 countries left that stick to the old ways are Cuba and North Korea. It's much easier now for citizens from China, Russia and even Vietnam to immigrate to the rest of the world, but not Cubans. To me that's a dictatorship, no freedom to leave if you don't like it where you live.
 
On the note about old vehicles and such in Cuba, I agree that it would be pretty awesome to take a look at what they have. I saw a special a while back about how they keep up their old bikes (that, in many cases, look pretty damn awesome by the way) by forging their own spare parts. Lots of stuff down there that is in a bit of a time capsule.

I'm a SCUBA diver and spent some time down in Grand Cayman. I was sort of surprised (but not really, after applying some logic) to find out where people living in Grand Cayman go on vacation! Cuba! They love it and actually mentioned how opening the flood gates with the U.S. would likely ruin their little slice of heaven. Perhaps. Could certainly be debated. Regardless, I know it would be on my list of places to go.

Fredo...get me a banana daiquiri.

Tim
 
I don't go to Cuba. I can, I"m allowed as a Canadian, but I don't choose to support a commie dictatorship. My choice. I do not knowingly buy Asia or sweatshop made items. Why, because I believe in supporting people with a living wage here in the US and Canada is a better way to go. What's wrong with that? Helps the economy and may help reduce the unemployment rate. Won't hurt.
As far as union made US bikes being 100% American go, there are off-shore (shouldn't say Chinese, don't want to offend anyone) parts on them. Also some, not all, of the aftermarket bits for H/V are not US made. Oh, and don't forget that the Honda Goldwing is built in the US. Bet it's closer to 100% US made than the other two.
I'll even wager. that some of the custom bike bit sellers right on this site sell Asia made parts. Why because they're cheap. remember, you get what you pay for.
BTW, my name is not Che, who was Argentinian not Cuban, why you would call me that I don't know. I don't support dictatorships, left or right politically.. Maybe name calling is a method of arguing when one assumes ...... and as Sylvester the Cat said, "take it down the road to someone who gives a shit. I don't" and I don't drink lattes, iced or otherwise, and my computer is an old tower, made of US,Japanese and European parts by a local computer geek . Would be hard to drag that into a Starbucks. I drink beer, made here in CDN by Union labour. I'd drink US beer, but the alcohol % is a lot lower that ours. I also don't hug trees, too many splinters. My car is made in Belgium by a company owned by GM using European parts for a now defunct American label.

Support your own first. Pay a bit more and help your own people. What's wrong with that?????

At least this tirade is where it belongs,off the BOTM list.

I've said my piece.
 
timdaugherty said:
On the note about old vehicles and such in Cuba, I agree that it would be pretty awesome to take a look at what they have. I saw a special a while back about how they keep up their old bikes (that, in many cases, look pretty damn awesome by the way) by forging their own spare parts. Lots of stuff down there that is in a bit of a time capsule.

I'm a SCUBA diver and spent some time down in Grand Cayman. I was sort of surprised (but not really, after applying some logic) to find out where people living in Grand Cayman go on vacation! Cuba! They love it and actually mentioned how opening the flood gates with the U.S. would likely ruin their little slice of heaven. Perhaps. Could certainly be debated. Regardless, I know it would be on my list of places to go.

Fredo...get me a banana daiquiri.

Tim
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Vehicles range from near show condition (although I didn't get a look under the hood) to held together with wire and duct tape. And they do forge their own parts, including for the Harleys that are still on the road. Went to a great car and bike museum as well. And they've got these crazy 3-wheeled pod-like taxis. Food is amazing. But most of all, the people are great, really friendly, and there's music seemingly coming out of every doorway and alley.

As for disappointment over political change, that's a bit selfish. Their slice of heaven includes people living in poverty and buildings falling down from neglect (albeit some very cool Spanish colonial architecture...). I would be more psyched on seeing Cubans standard of living go up than I would worry about how the residents of the Grand Caymans quaint vacation spot has been ruined by development.
 
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