wobble after hitting a bump due to flexing frame?

jungalist

Been Around the Block
Little question, I changed the rear shocks of my cb125T cafe for some stiffer ones and sometimes when I hit a bump in the road the bike feels a bit wobbly like a fish slapping his tail.

Is it possible the frame flexes more now because of the stiffer shocks? Or is this mostly the cause of a flexible swingarm? and how could i try to eliminate this as much as possible?

honda-cb125t2-france-frame-body_mediumma000162f24_6d84.jpg


Ihis is the frame design if it might help
 
Do some reading up on how to set up your suspension - it's pretty simple once you read through the process. Stiffer does not equal better. And longer rear shocks = steeper steering angle = 'oh shit' moments.
 
they are about half an inch to maybe an inch longer than stock. they are those 'crappy' rfy shocks but they are more than decent enough for an 125. preload is down to minimum so what more can i do to loosen them up a bit? i've seen them on many cb 125's which are even lighter than my twin...
 
so i know my weight is now shifted to the front of the bike, so you would say it becomes more stable, right?

and maybe, could it be time for new swingarm bushes? maybe some brass ones?
 
yes swingarm bushings could be loose ...but
EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT SETTING UP SUSPENSION !!
you may very well need softer springs and or damping
you may need to change the settings in the front suspension as well
 
Sounds like insufficient damping to me. Generally speaking, if you raised the rear the you should stiffen the front which will compensate for the loss of damping when you decreased the castor angle. So, you may have insufficient damping on the front and the back.
 
I learned a long time ago, what is happening out front can effect what's going on out back and vice / versa. Put the bike on the center stand, have somebody sit or hold down the back, grab the forks towards the bottom and pull back and forth, if you feel play, it's the steering bearings.

I also agree it could be the front springs, maybe in need of heavier fluid. One thing, I never upgrade part of the suspension unless the remaining suspension is up to par. So if the front is still the stock stuff, maybe time to up grade to go along with what you've done in the back. Springs and fluid are reasonable price wise. And maybe it'll wake that little beast up.
 
Very likely the combination of increased length and increased stiffness has sufficiently increased the rear ride height to substantially decrease both the rake and trail of the front geometry. This will have the effect of quickening the steering, at the expense of stability. Modern bikes can have much steeper geometry because the chassis is so much more rigid. Your poor ol' Honda is complaining from the alteration. More weight on the front does not increase stability per 'se, but does increase traction and is a different topic. If you can either get the rear ride height back down to where it was, or raise the front the same amount, your issue will likely go away, though it is certainly possible that improving the back can simply expose something you did not notice before just because bad behavior issuing from the back was more noticeable. It is truly amazing what you can get used to over time if you don't ride different bikes to compare! Old bikes have it pretty rough, having started with pretty awful suspensions and chassis that usually become absolute crap with the years. Fix one thing and you are doomed, and have to do the swing arm pivot, the steering pivot, shocks and whatever the forks need to get all back sweet. Definitely some work, but pretty cheap DIY. I always look at it this way: Sometimes repairs can be a real PITA, but it is awesome knowing the really critical things are not going to be a danger because you looked after it yourself, and knowing it is going to look back after you when it counts!
 
for the front only thing done is new fork oil. u put in as much as was prescripted in the manual but it gave me almost no damping so i compressed the frond and calculated the empty space to determine how much oil i should put in. they are well damped now but they drop quite a bit when i take the bike of it's stand or when braked. so heavy duty springs up front to compensate the rear should improve the ride?
 
and thanks jpmobius, i'll deffinately take my time to make sure everything is as good as it can get, so i don't have to blame myself for not having fixed this or that if i wreck the bike...

by the way, the rfy shocks are damping pretty hard, maybe a bit too hard for an +/-110kg bike, can i let go a bit of the gas inside the shock or something like that?
 
no dont let the gas out you will only screw them up,the gas needs to be fully charged it has nothing to do with damping rate but everything to do with how the shock works
 
hmm ok, good to know. so i'll leave the rear as it is for now and focus on the front and check all pivot points for wear
 
Stay with the factory volume for fork oil until you get things sorted out. The forks have 2 springs: one is the metal coil spring inside, and the other is the trapped air above the oil which becomes a spring when the fork compresses. Add too much oil, and the resulting pressure can damage the seals. Ride height cannot be corrected with oil volume. Don't confuse damping with springing. The ride height and geometry has zero to do with damping. Your change at the back would create the same stability issue if you take the oil from the shocks and have zero damping. The spring, which determines the position of the back when you are on the bike would be unaffected. Certainly when you are riding the situation is dynamic and more complex but you made one change, and created one problem. Guess where the problem comes from. Put the old shocks back on, sit on the bike, and measure from the ground to the top shock mount. Get help, make sure the bike is on level ground and perfectly vertical (measurements should be the same on both sides). Put the new shocks on and repeat. If the new shock measurement is higher, you need to either lower it somehow, or raise the front the same amount to maintain the original geometry (technically it won't be, but it will be close enough). Commonly guys raise telescopic forks by using a longer preload spacer, usually under the cap on top of the spring. If you have spacers, make appropriately longer ones from pvc pipe, or you may be able to add them if you have none. Stronger replacement springs would do the same thing, but more complicated to figure out, and of course more expensive.
 
great writeup
the best way to stiffen the front is to shorten the stock spring maybe an inch or so,then make it up with a spacer with somewhat mild preload,dont shorten too much stay away from coilbind
but this increases the actuall spring rate without jacking in a ton of preload which is not ideal
 
oh ok now i see, i'll get into fiddling with the spring and get some spacers made and try it out. thanks, great advise!
 
and there are no spacers inside the front yet. and about the pvc, that's just to mock up right, right? ???
 
Nope. The PVC is the spacer you use.

I may have missed a few posts, but tightening up the front end is only going to do so much. You really need to drop the rear back to it's stock height.
 
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