Woodbine Cycle Salvage - Not so hot experience

[Catbird]

Storytime. I wanted to post this earlier but we've had SEVERE internet issues due to flooding, and my father has been the only one with internet access due to his government-issued cellular modem.

I've mentioned to a couple of you guys that we have a good stock of parts for the DT250s, which makes repairs and modifications much less of a chore. I recently found out at the worst time possible that one of the engines was not so good, and that its seller, Woodbine Cycle Salvage, is also not so good.

Monday. ROugh day, family melodrama. Last place on earth I wanted to go was work dealing with a positively asinine assistant store manager, so I left a little early to take a long route to work on this bike.

I was being tailgated by some jerkoff in a Mercury Marauder because apparently my decision to go 60 in a 50 zone about to slow down to a 45 zone simply wasn't fast enough for him. Kind of irritating, but I wanted to get my smokes from the gas station to calm badly frayed nerves, so I was *not* about to make a scene by driving aggressively, especially on a 20hp dual-sport that I knew was probably running on borrowed time.

SUddenly the engine seizes up in a manner that would indicate a catastrophic main-bearing failure, sputters a little, and gives off a death rattle. Strange drag force in the gearbox, rear tire locks for a split second.
My front end goes into a wild shimmy, and I manage to stabilize it by rear-braking hard and clutching.
THe good news is that I managed to keep it upright until I came to a complete stop in the ditch on the side of the road, at which point I fell over because my legs were Jello and I'd narrowly averted voiding my bowels.
THe kind soul behind me does what any reasonable person would do. He blares his horn and passes in my lane as soon as I start to shift toward the shoulder. Because I obviously only do this sort of thing to piss people off. I hope his children put him in a really shitty nursing home.

The bad news is that the case is pretty well knackered inside. Won't stay in neutral or in gear, it just does whatever it wants. I have no idea what's bad because I wanted to put a new engine in pronto and get my little toy back in operating shape for in a few days when I finally want to ride again.

THe probably-good-but-not-certain-yet news is that I still don't know just how well made my I2X jacket or new Vega helmet are, but I'm sure glad I was wearing them anyway.

THe day after, I opened up a crated engine sold by Woodbine Cycle Salvage. I'm obviously not the kind to let that fucking horse have its way after I fall off, even to a fault.

THis is the first time I've opened the crate at this point because my father didn't want me to take it apart and lose or damage parts or make a mess in the garage unnecessarily. Understandable.
ENgine was sold as in good shape, complete except for the shift lever and the cover over the flywheel. Advertised SPECIFICALLY as having good compression.

So I uncrate this thing, on what happens to be the day immediately after the last day to file a complaint on eBay or PayPal. I wonder where I get my procrastination habit from.

Lo and behold, the flywheel is totally corroded. The stator plate is totally seized to the flywheel, and the piston is totally seized to the cylinder. The engine was at one point totally filled with water, as the insides were completely filled with orange rust once I was able to un-stick the piston and get the head off.

Riddle me this:
How the fuck do you measure compression in an engine that won't turn over because it is essentially a solid, frozen-up block...?

My father sends the guy a message saying basically that we were unsatisfied because the engine was not capable in any way of generating compression, let alone good compression, and asking of there was anything at all (Including an explanation) that the guy could offer.

The response was basically, "My son is a lawyer and I consider your message threatening."

I hesitate to call him a gentleman, but that's the most professional term I can come up with at this point.
I will be posting transcripts of the E-mail exchange between my father and the seller shortly.

Bottom line:
I'm feeling massively grumpy right now because the last week has felt like God's gift to motorcyclists and I'm stuck in a fucking 14 city-MPG cage with bum brakes and holes in the floor big enough to put your fist through because of a passive-aggressive seller ripping me off.

I've got my remaining stock of parts inventoried and I'm trying to figure out if I have everything I need to assemble one full motor in 100% condition. I think I do, but I have yet to dig through electronics to verify what I have, and I have to match pistons to cylinders.
It's not like I'm in a position to just move on. The motor cost me $100 and was intended specifically for this exact situation I find myself in, and I don't exactly have the resources to just go buy another. Not to mention, all the while I'm not riding the bike, I'm dumping liquid paycheck into my car's gas tank.

Again, E-mail transcripts are forthcoming.

 

[kdjbcdtb]

I am truly sorry you feel this way. I would really appreciate if you would tell the whole truth though and not leave out what your dad really said.
Here is exactly what he wrote us, "Dear woodbinecyclesalvage,the transmission went out on my sons dt250 yesterday so we opened up the crate with the engine we got from you. the head was loose, the cylinder was loose too. the engine couldnt be turned so we took the head and cylinder off to look inside. they both came off easily. the crank is so rusted that im sure it hasnt been able to be turned in years. since the head and cylinder were both loose im sure thast nobody ever checked compression as the listing said you did. i regret not opening the crate before today, but i didnt because it was packaged nice and you had good feedback. do you have anything to say? i know i cant file a claim and ive already left feedback, but my son is a professional writer and blogs on lots of motorcycle forums and id rather not have to use that avenue to get justice. "

Okay so with the last senteances he wrote, do you honestly feel that is not threatening?

If he would have not threatened us we would have tried to do something about it. Also you are not totally describing the engine how it really was and are adding things that are not true.

Here is the exact describtion that was listed when bought the item. Part was listed for parts only and was stated that it may need work.

"complete motor as shown from a 1974 yamaha dt250. it is missing the intake parts and the flywheel side cover. otherwise complete. has great compression. the piston and rings look good through the intake and exhaust ports. transmission is clean inside.. includes the clutch cable and oil pump. no shift lever or kick start lever. i do not know the history of this motor so i do not know what may or may not work on it. great for parts or rebuild it. i will crate this engine and ship it ups ground in the usa lower 48 only. it will weigh 80-85 lbs crated. i will add an extra $15 for materials and crating to the shipping cost. do not go by what the ebay calculator says. i will crate, get true ups cost, and invoice the buyer after the sale. any questions send me a message."

We bought the item from someone else because we needed a part from it for a customer, then we relisted the engine stating it was missing the part we used. First of all you only paid $25 for the item plus shipping. We paid $149 plus shipping. Compression was checked as my husband is a mechanic and we are honest people. If we would have done something wrong or if a customer felt wronged we would take responsiblity but when threatened that is a different story. Kindness and respect will get you a lot farther in life.

We admit we did send " Sorry you should have let us know sooner. nothing we can do now. As for checking compression it was checked when the motor came into us . as for head bolts being loose we never touched them. As for the threat It has been reported to EBay. Common courtesy would have gotten you better results than threaten us. My son is an attorney be careful what you Blog."

This was sent in response to your dad's threat not ours. SO PLEASE NEXT TIME YOU DECIDE TO TELL A STORY, PLEASE TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOT JUST WHAT YOU WANT TO TELL TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK BETTER.

We are truly sorry for any trouble this may have caused you, but please rememeber that when you buy an item open it when you get the item and something might be wrong do not threaten someone with "blogs" to try to get something, instead be kind!!!! Everyone makes mistakes even you, so please remember that.

Thank you! Have a Great Summer !

 

[Aircooledrules]

This is a tough one.

1st of all because if you buy a motor for $25 ( no one cares what it cost to ship it ) you shouldn't be surprised that it will require work.

The description also states that its for parts and may or may not need a rebuild.

But the part that really bothers me is that the seller is stating that they checked compreseion and it was good, and they did not touch the cylinder head.

How can you check compression with a loose cylinder head ?

The way this should have gone down is :

Buyer : this motor sucks.
Seller : Look you paid $25 for the motor, suck it.
Buyer : Fair enough.

But the motor is being misrepresented if the seller wrote that it has good compression when its really a boat anchor.

Sucky deal.

 

[Catbird]

Alright, then.
First and foremost, I was not aware of the kind of language my father chose to use; all I had to go on was hearsay. A number of my friends from the boards will attest to the fact that whereas I'm generally a chatty nuisance on the live-chat board and always have something of precisely no value beyond mindless encouragement in various builds I'm watching, I have not been around in a few weeks.
I had not seen the actual transcript of either message, and as you can imagine, I felt inclined to trust the word of someone who for the last 23 years has been pretty trustworthy to me.
I'm sure that knowing this much, you'll be able to accept my apology on that front.

Second, to set the record straight, I am not a professional writer anymore, that's something I stopped doing a couple of years back.
Furthermore, this is the only motorcycle forum I use, it just happens to be a big one. I'm a prop fabricator specializing in replica firearms and armor, so most of the weblogging and tutorial work I do is in reenactment, sci-fi, airsoft and steampunk websites and fora. Just so there is no misrepresentation.

Third, on the condition of the motor and my expectations.
I am no newcomer to the process of buying used parts and engines, and make no mistake... I don't look for lobster on a Little Caesar's budget. My daily driver is a 1965 Pontiac Tempest Custom that I've been restoring from the couple-hundred-dollar rust-bucket it was when I was 16, and I understand that old, used parts are a gamble.
All I wanted off of it was the head, the piston, the cylinder, and some shell components for experimenting with. I intended to tear the case apart experimentally with the purpose of determining how hard it would be to replace the bearings in the engine that just recently exploded.
The head bolts were not loose, I don't know where that came from, they were on tight enough that I had to gently tap them loose using a piece of pipe against the end of the wrench. There was one that was an unusual size, but the stud wasn't damaged, so it was no major issue.
My problem was, and still is, that it seems a little unfair to sell an engine with a seized piston, and a stator plate and flywheel that are, for all intents and purposes, one continuous piece, as having great compression.



Have we reached a mutual understanding now?

I hope you can sorta get where I'm coming from with this.
A couple weeks ago, I felt like I'd been cheated by some guys in a barn.
Now, I come to find out that, I've been used as an attack dog, and I've got people I would have called friends jumping down my throat in private messages because I've suddenly become "That Guy".

And it's not like I can just wash my hands of this, because realistically I should have checked my facts before diving in.

 

[Deviant1]

The part that gets me is the threatening part. Really? You felt threatened by that, enough so to call a lawyer and file stuff with eBay? You couldn't have just apologized and made nicey nice? I'm just saying this as a business owner. I mean do you think that kind of behavior gets you any fans? Is that any way to satisfy your customers? If you're in business to make people happy with your product then you have to be able to take poop from pompous people.
And as an aside my father is an attorney who deals with people placing calls like this to him from time to time. What was your attorney's advice?
As far as the transaction and the product and complaints I make no judgement there. Stuff doesn't line up perfectly on either side. But it was a 25 dollar motor. And regardless of how it's advertised you get what yIou pay for.
The threatened and attorney bits just reek of the hyper letigous society we live in. I mean really ' he's going to get his son to say awful things about me on a forum. And I'm threatened by this. So I should attempt to take legal action and try to bugger this unsatisfied customer as hard as I can.' That attitude alone scares the hell out of me and is enough reason for me to refrain from doing business with someone.
All he was threatening to do was get his son to post his version of how things went down in a perfectly acceptable forum. Had you let it alone probably no one else would have commented unless you make a habit of this kind of thing. But then you voluntarily posted on an open Internet forum. Which in effect would open the floodgates. Sorry. Don't waste your lawyer's time and report me to eBay because I threatened to not do business with you. Please?

 

[kdjbcdtb]

I do understand wear you are comming from. As I am not the one who send the message through ebay my dad is and I did not know until after it was sent.
"old men" they get a little worked up easily! LOL just kidding I love my Daddy to death!!!

Again, as part owner of the business. I am truely sorry for any trouble this may have caused.
I wish there was something we could do for but with the time frame you have to understand there is nothing we can do. If we would have know sooner we would have done everything possible to make you happy. You can tell this by our feedback. If you have some advise on what we could do to make this right please share. You have to understand though with so many dishonest people in this world that some may not take your dads message as threatening but my dad did.

All I personally know is that we bought the motor, checked it, and took the parts we needed off of it which is listed in the discription and then relisted the item stating what we did. Please except my apology if in any way you feel that this was wrong.

Please except my apology as well on behalf of Woodbinecyclesalvage, it may not seem like it but we do try and take care of our customers whatever the situation is.

Hope you have a great summer and get everything worked out on your motorcyle!

 

[Catbird]

Well, I agree, it took us way too long to get the damn thing checked out. I've since purchased some parts and unfinished cores, picked up in person. With any luck, I'll have the thing back on the road by September, assuming nothing else comes up between then and now.