Yet another CB350 battery question

foundation982

foundation982

Been Around the Block
my bike will be kick only, stock headlight, may switch the halogen soon, LED tail lights.


Okay so I've heard they can run on a 12v 3-4 amp hour battery, who makes a good/small one?
Will I need to update my rectifier and regulator?


I just don't want to be buying batteries and burning up wires to find out what works and what doesn't
 
I'm trying to go the same route with my '70 CB350.

I'm pretty sure you'll need a new charging system and rectifier (mine's in the mail right now)
but i've not figured out yet what to do about a battery.

I've read somewhere about people using a large capacitor, others talking about wiring 4 3.6v camera batteries in series. But i'm not sure what works. /shrug
 
This looks pretty badass:

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronic-parts-ricks-electric-hot-shot-honda-cb350-cl350-cb360-cl360-charging-kit-99-101.html

Capacitors can be sketchy, but are doable - my brother runs one on his SRX600, but he lives in the land of milk and 70 degree weather, California. If you install the upgraded charging kit, you should be ok, but since most Honda charging systems are lossy below 2000 RPMs, you'll have to blip the throttle when you're idling at a light or risk stalling if you stick with the stock charging system.

Some folks on here have successfully used a little 12 V / 4 AH AGM battery, and that's gotta be a pretty small battery - you could hide that anywhere and still be able to start the bike with the headlight on.

Oh, and the updated charging system says it will support a 65 watt headlight, which would be good for a halogen conversion, I think.
 
I ended up getting a 3 amp hour trugel battery for a honda xl200 not sure if it will work but I'll let you know within the next couple weeks!
 
Jrasm said:
I just, not 5 minutes ago, bought one of these

http://shop.testsycl.com/A123-23-AH-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-4S1P001.htm

I'll let you know how it works out, but they're small, super light, and specifically designed for motorcycles < 450CC. so i'm thinking this, coupled with that high-output charging kit will be perfect.

The 4.6Ah larger ones they sell attach with velcro :eek: Which i think, should speak to the weight of this
Click to expand...

Jrasm,
What did you think of the battery ? Thinking of going this route.

Thanks,
~T
 
Anybody have those batteries working for a year now? I see a lot of talk and purchasing of the lower capacity battery but no long term information.

I read that the LiPO4 batteries need a special charger, that does a balance charge on the cells. I know the CB350 or CB360 doesn't do this. Does it shorten the life of the battery?

I would think the OEM's would be putting these on new bikes to save some weight, but I don't see them. You think cars would go for the weight reduction too....

Make's me leery...I'd like a little more info on the reliability.
 
the tru-gel is an AGM battery, otherwise similar to the standard Lead-Acid battery. Those are on my short list for a replacement battery.

The Lithium Ion and similar batteries (Ballistic, Etc) are a different animal all together. while they have been marketed to the motorcycle crowd, I wonder if they really are well suited to application. Our old charging systems aren't very sophisticated. I wonder if they will last.

They are good for racing, because they are lightweight, but I still have doubt's about normal, street use.
 
Jrasm said:
I just, not 5 minutes ago, bought one of these

http://shop.testsycl.com/A123-23-AH-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-4S1P001.htm

I'll let you know how it works out, but they're small, super light, and specifically designed for motorcycles < 450CC. so i'm thinking this, coupled with that high-output charging kit will be perfect.

The 4.6Ah larger ones they sell attach with velcro :eek: Which i think, should speak to the weight of this
Click to expand...

Please let me know how it works out. I was thinking of getting the larger one for my kick on 500. I have new regulator and rectifier. Thanks

http://shop.testsycl.com/A123-46-AH-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-4S2P001.htm
 
http://www.batteriesplus.com/pc-32755-32755-XTAX4L-BS.aspx

I've got this one on my CB350 and it's been working fine for 400 miles.
 
ZeMoto said:
Please let me know how it works out. I was thinking of getting the larger one for my kick on 500. I have new regulator and rectifier. Thanks

http://shop.testsycl.com/A123-46-AH-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-4S2P001.htm
Click to expand...

Well, i'm not quite at a point where i can give a conclusive answer. I decided that the best way to repair my old rotten wiring harness was to build a new one from scratch. That coupled with vacationing, my g/f moving in with me and only being able to work on the bike for a few hours a night... i'm still working on it... But it's looking promising. I've got everything situated in the tail bubble so if the battery DOES explode and I blow my a$$ off, I'll be sure to let y'all know also.
 
My take on it is, if these batteries are reliable, with the big reduction in weight every MFG of a high performance vehicle, car or bike, would be using them. The weight saving is phenomenal.

I do know from my other electronic devices, that these batteries need very specific chargers, and need to keep the charge between the cells balanced. If you bike has a permanent magnet alternator, you really aren't treating them right, and their lives will be shorter.

I think these batteries are a boutique item, and for me, not suitable in reliability for a daily driver. Oddly, their big sell is that they do not lose their charge when stored. So if you are building a bike that won't be ridden much, maybe they are perfect.
 
mydlyfkryzis said:
...
I do know from my other electronic devices, that these batteries need very specific chargers, and need to keep the charge between the cells balanced. If you bike has a permanent magnet alternator, you really aren't treating them right, and their lives will be shorter.

I think these batteries are a boutique item, and for me, not suitable in reliability for a daily driver. Oddly, their big sell is that they do not lose their charge when stored. So if you are building a bike that won't be ridden much, maybe they are perfect.
Click to expand...

I think you're getting some false information.

http://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx

I use Shorai Lithium Iron ( LiFePO4 ) batteries in all my motorcycles and my experimental airplanes.

The only specific chargers (float wall chargers) you can't use are ones with a desulfation mode. Your alternator can charge the battery just fine with no problems.
 
MatthiasSalzburg said:
I think you're getting some false information.

http://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx

I use Shorai Lithium Iron ( LiFePO4 ) batteries in all my motorcycles and my experimental airplanes.

The only specific chargers (float wall chargers) you can't use are ones with a desulfation mode. Your alternator can charge the battery just fine with no problems.
Click to expand...

Maybe with age comes wisdom. I have been around a while, and I work for a manufacturer of products, and often write service instructions and I read instructions a lot. I have learned to read between the lines. You posted a link to the FAQ. Here's what I see - I bolded the "between the lines part so you understand my "Take" on this:
Q. Can I use Lead-Acid battery chargers or charger/tenders?
A.Yes. HOWEVER, you may NOT use a charger/tender if it has an automatic "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off. We have confirmed with Deltran, makers of the "Battery Tender" brand, that their products do NOT have a desulfation mode, and are therefore OK for use with Shorai LFX, for example. But the best possible charger/tender for Shorai LFX is the SHO-BMS01, which will be released on about March 15th 2011, we expect. It uses the 5-pin BMS port in the LFX batteries, in order to monitor, diagnose, and balance the individual cells during charge. And it also has an optimized storage mode that will give the longest possible service life to your LFX.
Click to expand...


You see, I want the "longest possible service life" from my battery. For the cost of one of these batteries, and their charger, I can have about 6 regular batteries. My CB360 battery was $35. With the battery tender, and a lot of love, my last battery lasted just over 7 years. My battery in my NH750 is 5 years old right now, and still has 12.4 volts resting.

I have a suspicion that the new technology batteries just won't last as long in poorly regulated motorcycle charging system. The advantage to them is weight, which if you aren't racing, is not that critical.

I am not saying they don't work, but if someone has an old bike that has been using these batteries for aver 2 years, and didn't use the special charger, maybe they are better then I think.

But is the cost premium over a standard battery equal to the advantages? Not for me. I think the value proposition is lacking. Since I use a battery tender anyway, and my batteries last a while, there is no real advantage to the Shorei battery for me.
 
I'm not starting a pissing match. I'm too old for that. ;D Just saying what my experience has been with the Shorai batteries. I've used the 18 amp hour battery in my experimental aircraft for over 200 hours flight time (100 hrs per year for 2 years) with great results. (It uses a motorcycle stator & rotor for charging, not a car alternator) Weight is very critical in a light aircraft, along with reliability. It was a 9% drop in weight for my firewall forward installation compared to the standard lead acid I removed.

Depending on cost I may or may not use one on my CB350 project. Your opinion on price and longevity is a valid one that I won't dispute. However, for someone who really values weight, than a LiFePO battery might be a good solution.
 
For an aircraft, weight is crucial...For a cafe racer, somewhat less crucial..

I wasn't looking to get into an internet fight either.

Your aircraft use a 34 year old regulator too? I just notice the first thing a lot of people do to Cafe their bikes is ditch the battery for one of these lightweight jobs. But because their charging system is old, and the connections bad, they don't realize they are putting out 15 to 15.5 volts. The stock Honda CB350 and CB360 is regulated to 15 volts, +/- 0.5 volts. If a system is putting out 15.5 volts, it will cook these expensive batteries.

I bet you aircraft voltage is better regulated than a 1967 Stock CB350....

I think a AGM battery is better suited to an old bike, it can be mounted in any position, has characteristic we are familiar with, works as well or as poorly, if you deem it that way, as a conventional lead acid battery.

I believe some people put these on because they are new technology, rather than they really serve the purpose intended.

If all out performance is the issue, sure, they will help. But if you are removing fork braces, putting 16 inch Balloon tires on that rub the fork sliders, I doubt the performance of the bike is highest in the mind of the builder.

For me, the value of the few pounds versus the cost, just doesn't do it for me, but for an airplane, I'm all in...
 
mydlyfkryzis said:
Your aircraft use a 34 year old regulator too? I just notice the first thing a lot of people do to Cafe their bikes is ditch the battery for one of these lightweight jobs. But because their charging system is old, and the connections bad, they don't realize they are putting out 15 to 15.5 volts. The stock Honda CB350 and CB360 is regulated to 15 volts, +/- 0.5 volts. If a system is putting out 15.5 volts, it will cook these expensive batteries.

I bet you aircraft voltage is better regulated than a 1967 Stock CB350....
Click to expand...

No, I use a Kohler voltage regular/rectifier on my aircraft. Same one that I used on my 350 & 125. I agree about the charging system and people not messing with it before installing parts. The previous owner of my 350 project bike installed a pamco ignition and it blew up in only a few miles due to an over volt.
 
So far i'm pretty happy with my tiny battery. Been running it for about 3 weeks now. We'll see how well it works out in 6 months, but as it stands, i don't have any problems starting in the morning, nor running the headlights in the evening. I'm also running kick-start only, so there's that. No need for the huge CCA, which is good because i'm not sure this little battery can handle it. So far it's been great to be able to stash it and get the battery-less look i wanted.
 
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