1975 CB360 Kickstart “stuck”

jsherwoo

New Member
At the absolute Final stages of my cafe rebuild, had the engine running before pulled it off the frame to paint, etc.

My Kick won’t budge, I see a very slight movement on the sprocket when I try to push down on the kick.

Bike is is neutral (rolls without any engine resistance). Also tried with clutch pulled in, but no difference.
When I set the electronic ignition, I was able to crank the engine to get compression strokes no problem, so I don’t think it’s seized (plus I had it running a few months ago).

Guess I don’t understand the linkage between the kick, clutch, drive train, etc?!? I assumed neutral would disengage the drivetrain from the motor, and the kick would then Be able to turn the engine.

Really hoping there’s some simple troubleshooting steps I could try before cracking open the case :-/

Another thing to note, not sure what the push rod should be doing when I have the clutch case off, it slides in and out freely. Is it supposed to push in further with the pressure from the clutch cable, and perhaps I can’t expert enough pressure by hand to make it do some sort of actuation? Or should I be able to feel some sort of “spring” as I exert pressure on it by hand?
 
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jsherwoo

New Member
some videos of what’s happening
 

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irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
DTT BOTM WINNER
Your kickstarter shaft is likely out of rotation. There's an arm on the shaft behind the cover that will engage a tab on the engine case if it's set wrong. I would take the cover off and reassemble the kickstarter.
 

jsherwoo

New Member
Your kickstarter shaft is likely out of rotation. There's an arm on the shaft behind the cover that will engage a tab on the engine case if it's set wrong. I would take the cover off and reassemble the kickstarter.
Thanks @irk miller
I guess I’m draining the oil and pulling the case cover off :-/.
Wondering how it would have gotten out of sync? Just removing the kickstart arm could contribute to that you think? (I haven’t opened the case since I had it running last).
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
DTT BOTM WINNER
Double check under your tappet covers and make sure they’re all there. Could be hitting a locknut against the cam chain, but I’m under the impression you can start it with the electric starter.
 

jsherwoo

New Member
Double check under your tappet covers and make sure they’re all there. Could be hitting a locknut against the cam chain, but I’m under the impression you can start it with the electric starter.
Thanks. Will check out under the tappets. My electric starter doesn’t work (didn’t before the build) - so can’t check that way. I was able to manually crank the engine at the stator when setting the timing on the electronic ignition. So I would assume that would mean the cam chain is moving ok? Though, I was never able to get it to turn when I had it in neutral - I had to keep the clutch lever depressed.
 

jsherwoo

New Member
From what I can tell, the spring, etc looks correct. Clutch separates the plates. Does take a few tries to get the kick to “engage” with the gear. But once it does, not able to turn the engine. I’m baffled.
Next I guess I’ll try to turn the engine at the stator again to see if I can get it to turn.

I feel like it’s gonna be something simple, like I tightened something too much on the stator when putting in the shockwave or something?

But open to any suggestions/idea.
 

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jsherwoo

New Member
Still able to turn over the engine at the stator, with the clutch lever pulled in. Can’t turn it if it’s in neutral (clutch lever has to be pulled). Not sure if that’s normal behavior? But thinking perhaps something is up with my clutch/neutral?

But anyway, engine turns so assume cam chain and pistons are fine.

Am I at a point where I need to crack open the case to see what’s going on with the kickstart? Or is there a way to troubleshoot from the side case?
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
DTT BOTM WINNER
Can you kick start it with the clutch engaged? Sounds like the transmission is jammed somewhere.
 

pidjones

Over 1,000 Posts
Still able to turn over the engine at the stator, with the clutch lever pulled in. Can’t turn it if it’s in neutral (clutch lever has to be pulled). Not sure if that’s normal behavior? But thinking perhaps something is up with my clutch/neutral?

Sounds to me like you are not really in neutral. Don't believe you can just push by hand on the clutch rod to disengage it. The clutch operation system enjoys quite a bit of mechanical advantage through the lever and lifter to be able to release the strong spring pressure holding the plates together. Might be a good time to check that all parts are installed. There is often a steel ball at the end of the rod - on some bikes both ends.
 

jsherwoo

New Member
Sounds to me like you are not really in neutral. Don't believe you can just push by hand on the clutch rod to disengage it. The clutch operation system enjoys quite a bit of mechanical advantage through the lever and lifter to be able to release the strong spring pressure holding the plates together. Might be a good time to check that all parts are installed. There is often a steel ball at the end of the rod - on some bikes both ends.
Thanks.
Yeah, that’s what it feels like.
However, when I put it into 1st, I can’t roll the bike, when I put it into neutral, bike rolls no problem, engine doesn’t try to turn - which tells me it is in neutral (I think).
And yes, have the clutch lever/cable all hooked up to get proper leverage and movement of clutch.
I’ll check on the push rod parts, but pretty sure it’s all there (though guess I’ll have to pull the clutch plates off to check on the other end?!?

Are there two sprockets (drives) or something that control clutch to engine to drive train.

Baffled at Neutral being able to roll, but can’t turn engine at stator when in neutral. Can turn engine at stator with clutch lever pulled in (but not in neutral without clutch lever). Can’t turn engine with kick regardless of clutch lever or neutral.
 
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jsherwoo

New Member
I removed the clutch rings, and can get a better sense of what’s happening.

In gear (1st or 2nd), as I spin the rear wheel, the basket/drive and kick turn counter clockwise until the kick reaches the bottom, it then clicks a few times and then stops everything. If I rotate the tire backward, the basket and kick both rotate clockwise til the kick hits the top and everything stops.

in neutral, the rear wheel spins freely, kick only has a very limited motion (moves basket from 12 o’clock to 11 o’clock).
I removed the basket, I can spin the main transhaft back and forth about 340’ (clockwise 12 o’clock to 10 o’clock and back) but it stops at each end. When I spin the rear wheel, the main transhaft doesn’t spin).
 

jsherwoo

New Member
This thread will likely not help anyone in the future, but just in case…. It’s resolved!!!

I had taken the engine out to paint it, during which I had turned it upside down to paint the underside. Given the kickstart gear seemed to be engaged all the time, someone suggested to me that perhaps some gunk from the bottom of the case had fallen into the kickstart gear/spring and gummed it up.

Going with that theory, and trying to avoid splitting open the case, my last ditch effort would be to see if I could knock the gears lose. With my trusty rubber mallet in hand, I proceeded to “lightly” tap the kickstart shaft, while periodically trying to spin the main gear shaft. After working this for several minutes, the main shaft and kickstart shaft began to move somewhat independently (more of a ratcheting sound) - so I knew I was onto something. More tapping, more spinning…. little less ratcheting. Until finally…. BINGO, they had broken free!!!!

And now she kicks over in just 1-2 kicks!!!

Thanks for all the responses!
 

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