CB200 rectifier/regulator question/problem

[Bert Jan]

I have the cb200 running and all, but found my headlight popped right after i started her.
Took out the multimeter and i read 20 volts DC on the hot black wire (and ground) with engine on.

I read 20 volts DC on battery terminals with engine running idle, up to 35v DC and 50v AC when revving.
I checked the rectifier (as per manual with ohm tests) and it seems ok. All combinations give on way, and disable current the other way. I have 20 volts on pink/yellow and 35v when revving. Seems like there is nothing being regulated/recitfied, but the units are tested with ohm test and like i said, passed those tests.

Can i do any more tests to confirm or exclude posibilities? With 35 Volts DC / 50AC on my system black wire it's not so strange lights keep poppin' )

 

[AlphaDogChoppers]

Your battery will explode, also.
Just replace the regulator, fer cryin' out loud and stop fussing about it.

 

[Bert Jan]

Well well, mr alphadogchoppers, guess who's not getting the 'niceguy award' this week

I've replaced it with a newer type, single phase regulator. Now i'm at 8 volts @ idle and 9,5 @ 4000rpm.
So, that did not went the way i wanted. I then took the double phase regulator out of a cb550f and (white regulator wire to yellow loom wire) and i'm at 6volt idle and 7@4000rpm. Do i need the original regulator or is there a replacement?

Only good thing about it is that i'm sure its the regulator, as the values clearly fluctuate when fiddling with it.

 

[AlphaDogChoppers]

Hey! I'm still a nice guy. Don't believe all the shit they say about me!

Sounds like you just haven't found the right regulator yet. I am not intimately familiar with the charging system of that particular bike. Some of the older bikes had some odd ways the charging system was set up, like one charging coil for daylight headlights off use, and a second coil that was only used when the headlights were one. Some old bikes have one phase regulated and running to the battery, and other phases unregulated and run directly to the headlight.

Do you have a wiring diagram? If you can scan or photograph a clear image of the wiring diagram, I would know more about how your system works, and keep my nice guy reputation intact.

 

[Bert Jan]

Haha here you go! I've read somewhere there's a combined unit for sale. Forgot name/brand/manufacturer...

 

[Tremelune]

If you're willing to go non-OEM, a modern, combined regulator/rectifier will provide much greater reliability. Search around for a "good" one, or one that is drop-in. They can pretty much be zip-tied in anywhere there's a bit of air flow...

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/Universal-Regulators

 

[Bert Jan]

I'd love to get an non-oem one. Willing to spend the cash also. Problem is i have no idea wich one is the right one and will fit and work properly. How can i check that before buying? Or are there other honda's (newer types) who have a combined sealed unit and will fit the 200? Wiring diagram is above with color codes. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Tremelune]

I haven't researched this in a while, so I don't know my stator from my magneto, but I'd be willing to bet this thing will plug right in:

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/1974-Honda-CB200-Regulator-Rectifier

 

[Bert Jan]

Hmm ok, seems good i guess. How about the color codes? Any clue?

 

[AlphaDogChoppers]

Tremelune, you hit a home run.

 

[Tremelune]

I'm shaky on this, but your stator should have three yellow wires coming out of it. I believe they are interchangeable, but I would really double-check that. These three wires go into the regrec, and a positive and negative come out the other size at (presumably, approximately) 14.4v, which is what you want.

Connect the red wire to the positive post on the battery, and the black wire to the negative post. There is probably factory wire you can use, but it wouldn't hurt to run new copper.

 

[Tremelune]

More random research:

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/104504-charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

That link recommends this MOSFET regrec:

http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20FH012AA%20Regulator%20upgrade%20kit.htm

Similar wiring...3 phase AC wires in, one positive, one negative out.

 

[teazer]

Not three yellow wires from old Hondas. There should be three leads. One is common and the other two are charge coils.. Regardless of how it was originally wired, connect teh two charge leads together and that and the other stator coil goes to the R/R. There should be two more leads from the R/R, power and ground, and that's it. talk to TOny weeks at Oregonmotorcycleparts.com and order a VRRPM2.

http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/VRRPM.html

 

[Tremelune]

Looking at the diagram posted, I see three wires coming off the "rotor type alternator"...Though the colors are different, that isn't three-phase AC?

I know the CB350 does a weird thing where two wires are used with the lights off, and the third is only used when the lights are on...I may have forgotten more than I ever knew.

 

[Bert Jan]

I was told at a bikeshop where i showed the diagram that the white/yellow (wich turns to yellow somewhere halfway the show) is an extra wire. On my diagram, the lights are always on, because the white/yellow turns yellow in the headlight bucket spagetti. There is however a type of bike wich apparently uses the same loom but has a main light switch wich, (next to turning on the lights) connects white/yellow to yellow, thus enabling the bike to use extra current supplied by the connection made between white/yellow and yellow.

@Teazer. I dont know what the word 'common' means in nerd-language (i cant convert the word to anything i understand) Common = the same says the dictionary. Well, one wire cant be 'the same'

I do not understand the following as well:

Regardless of how it was originally wired, connect teh two charge leads together and that and the other stator coil goes to the R/R.

How do i know wich ones are the charge leads (wich ones do i connect) and "the other stator coil"? Whats that? I have a separate regulator and rectifier. Do you mean the yellow wire in your explanation?

Im sorry for the inconveniece in languages and i really appreciate your effort, but its to difficult to understand the 'tough stuff'language. Could you explain it to me in 'dummy language'?

 

[Sonreir]

White is usually switched by the high beam and is only a partial coil.. Pink is a full coil, and yellow is partial, too.

Basically, white, yellow, and pink coming from the stator are all AC voltage. Pink will carry the most current, followed by yellow, and then white. It's very common to splice the white and the yellow together prior to the voltage being rectified and regulated.

If I remember correctly, the CB200 rectifier has three yellow wires as inputs? If so, each yellow wire gets either the pink, yellow, or white coming from the stator. It doesn't matter which ones.

 

[Bert Jan]

On the diagram (page 1) is visible that there are not 3 yellow wires (because my bike is a single phase regulator, so i was told)
I found a simplefied diagram, might be handy?

I think a lot of people will be helped when whe cover this problem, as the oem stuff is 'not that good'

 

[teazer]

Great. That's much clearer. Sorry Bert, your English is so good that I forget that it isn't your first language. And my last post wasn't very clear at all.

Pink is what I called Common ie it connects to both sets of charge coils and goes to the R/R.

If you have rewired the bike, run headlights on always, and fitted new light switches, you can wire Yellow and White/yellow together and connect that to R/R and do not connect them to the headlamp switch. That is for headlight always on riding.

If you ride with no lights turned on in the daytime, and you are using a stock wiring harness and switches, wire it like that last diagram you posted to avoid overcharging the battery.

Using a VRRPM2 you connect battery and ground and that's it. 4 wires.

 

[Bert Jan]

Nice! Thanks a bunch! Going to order one.

 

[Bert Jan]

White is usually switched by the high beam and is only a partial coil.. Pink is a full coil, and yellow is partial, too.

Basically, white, yellow, and pink coming from the stator are all AC voltage. Pink will carry the most current, followed by yellow, and then white. It's very common to splice the white and the yellow together prior to the voltage being rectified and regulated.

If I remember correctly, the CB200 rectifier has three yellow wires as inputs? If so, each yellow wire gets either the pink, yellow, or white coming from the stator. It doesn't matter which ones.

You're saying that theoraticly i can fit ANY rectifier/regulator wich has 3 yellow wires going in, and 2 wires (red and green) coming out? yellow wires are than connected to pink, white/yellow and yellow, and the red and green are positive and ground?

I'm asking because i want to learn, AND i have a spare rectifier from an 550 lying around somewhere. Could i test that without consequences?