AlphaDogChoppers
Science is true whether you believe in it or not.
Most of us already know he is a Virago Victim. <G>
Charging system leaves local man baffled
- Thread starter Rich Ard
- Start date
stroker crazy
crazy as a fox
Ask Brad about fixing batteries!
Crazy
Crazy
DeanJ
Been Around the Block
AlphaDogChoppers said:
Good info thanks! by the way, the max charging voltage on the AGM I had fail is 15.4v per the specs ( what it did NOT state is that this max is at only 40 degrees f ...... and the max voltage at 80f is 14.4v ... assholes )
Sealed AGM batteries do not "vent and dry out"... what happens is they gas internally and fail - the oxygen leaves the water molocules at the negative plates and hydrogen is released at the positive plates.. when over charging occurs, oxygen can not recombine with the hydrogen to return to the h20 state within the gel and yes, you can not add more gel...
Someone needs to make a regulator for old bikes that work with modern AGM batteries... it would have a variable voltage output based ambient temperature and the lower max v.
SONICJK
Reminds me of...me No, I'm sure of it. I hate him
Rich man I'm sorry all this shit is happening with the 'go I know how fucking frustrating it is and i feel for you amigo.
I'm with ADC that its probably a bad connection somewhere, fusebox is a good place to look.
My 400f was being a twat for a while where it would run and then all of a sudden the damn thing had zero power anywhere and then it would run again (made for fun night rides
) turns out, just like ADC above, one of my fuse holders was shitting out and only had continuity occasionally.
I'm with ADC that its probably a bad connection somewhere, fusebox is a good place to look.
My 400f was being a twat for a while where it would run and then all of a sudden the damn thing had zero power anywhere and then it would run again (made for fun night rides
) turns out, just like ADC above, one of my fuse holders was shitting out and only had continuity occasionally.
Re: Re: Charging system leaves local man baffled
Virago 920 with a bare bones harness, which I rocked for about 1500 miles until my original r/r failed, and was replaced with a MOSFET unit, which I thought had also failed at 2400 miles.
One coil went south and was replaced with a new coil; on my test run I had a cam chain guide fail and tore the cylinder down. I put another 100 miles on, the other coil failed, and the charging problem became apparent during testing. I threw another stock r/r on and that should bring us to the beginning of this thread.
Putting all of that down it occurs to me that this whole mess (aside from the engine catastrophe) may have a root that I have not properly addressed.
Thanks hillsy - let me know where to send that milk.
Though I am not seeing a voltage drop and am getting 12V at the coils, I will check this out. I did not check for drop anywhere but across the battery terminals.
My brother in law was kind enough to bring out his MODIS unit last night, at which point we determined that he is learning how to use it.
hillsy said:
Virago 920 with a bare bones harness, which I rocked for about 1500 miles until my original r/r failed, and was replaced with a MOSFET unit, which I thought had also failed at 2400 miles.
One coil went south and was replaced with a new coil; on my test run I had a cam chain guide fail and tore the cylinder down. I put another 100 miles on, the other coil failed, and the charging problem became apparent during testing. I threw another stock r/r on and that should bring us to the beginning of this thread.
Putting all of that down it occurs to me that this whole mess (aside from the engine catastrophe) may have a root that I have not properly addressed.
Thanks hillsy - let me know where to send that milk.
AlphaDogChoppers said:
Though I am not seeing a voltage drop and am getting 12V at the coils, I will check this out. I did not check for drop anywhere but across the battery terminals.
My brother in law was kind enough to bring out his MODIS unit last night, at which point we determined that he is learning how to use it.
AlphaDogChoppers
Science is true whether you believe in it or not.
DeanJ said:Good info thanks! by the way, the max charging voltage on the AGM I had fail is 15.4v per the specs ( what it did NOT state is that this max is at only 40 degrees f ...... and the max voltage at 80f is 14.4v ... assholes )
Sealed AGM batteries do not "vent and dry out"... what happens is they gas internally and fail - the oxygen leaves the water molocules at the negative plates and hydrogen is released at the positive plates.. when over charging occurs, oxygen can not recombine with the hydrogen to return to the h20 state within the gel and yes, you can not add more gel...
Someone needs to make a regulator for old bikes that work with modern AGM batteries... it would have a variable voltage output based ambient temperature and the lower max v.
You have quite a few of your facts wrong.
AGM batteries do, in fact, recombine H and 02 in order to kept the matte wetted. They are pressure regulated, so they contain the gasses until they recombine up to a point. When they are charged at excessive voltage, (Deka says that is 14.3V) the pressure exceeds the limit, and the battery vents. This is when water is lost.
There is no "gel" in an AGM battery. They are charged with liquid electrolyte, it is simply absorbed in a fiberglass matte, so there is no "free liquid" therefore making it "unspillable." They can be mounted in any position except upside down. The "top" is where the catalyst for recombining the gasses is, and if they were mounted upside down, the water would accumulate in that space instead of being reabsorbed into the matte.
If you want to know more about AGM battery technology, there is really good technical information on Deka's Web site.
http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1927.pdf
TripleKing
Been Around the Block
Having a similar problem on my 71 CB450. Tried two new batteries and checked every connection I could find. Stator puts out power, none get to the battery.
TripleKing
Been Around the Block
Stator. I have tried several regulators, including an electronic one setup specifically for the CB450 by Oregon Cycles. None of them make a difference.
TripleKing: Maybe you should clean your electrical connections.
ADC: if I ever get up to Philly (not bloody likely) I will buy you a beer.
I bought a blade fuse box this afternoon and thought that first I would try sanding down the fuse holders with 300 grit paper.
Punched the starter button and am firing big fat spark on both cylinders - I let the bike idle for about five minutes, no problems - I see voltage at about 14V across the battery. Turned it off, hit the starter button again, same deal - I will need to dial the fueling back in but it is HOT TO TROT.
I will tear down the entire harness, clean and dielectric grease EVERYTHING next.
After running for only that brief period of time, though, I notice that both ignition coils are quite hot; so much so that I would not close my hands on them unless I were being threatened. I don't like that - perhaps it will go away once I clean everything. If there's something else I should be looking for, though, do let me know. For reference, the Virago has a TCI ignition; I have the primary and secondary coil wires connected to power and the TCI as instructed.
ADC: if I ever get up to Philly (not bloody likely) I will buy you a beer.
I bought a blade fuse box this afternoon and thought that first I would try sanding down the fuse holders with 300 grit paper.
Punched the starter button and am firing big fat spark on both cylinders - I let the bike idle for about five minutes, no problems - I see voltage at about 14V across the battery. Turned it off, hit the starter button again, same deal - I will need to dial the fueling back in but it is HOT TO TROT.
I will tear down the entire harness, clean and dielectric grease EVERYTHING next.
After running for only that brief period of time, though, I notice that both ignition coils are quite hot; so much so that I would not close my hands on them unless I were being threatened. I don't like that - perhaps it will go away once I clean everything. If there's something else I should be looking for, though, do let me know. For reference, the Virago has a TCI ignition; I have the primary and secondary coil wires connected to power and the TCI as instructed.
johngofast
Over 1,000 Posts
Great to hear. I would expect the coils to be hotter than you'd be willing to close your hands on. Were they not before this?
This thread was a great read BTW.
This thread was a great read BTW.
Re: Re: Charging system leaves local man baffled
Trying to keep this entertaining helps me keep from experimenting with whether or not a Virago will run if it is doused in kerosene and set afire. Glad you enjoyed it, and many thanks for the help, all.
As to the relative heat of the coils - I have no clue whatsoever. I haven't had occasion to grab one before while a bike was running.
I will plan on taking it for a spin tomorrow and we'll see how it goes!
JohnGoFast said:
Trying to keep this entertaining helps me keep from experimenting with whether or not a Virago will run if it is doused in kerosene and set afire. Glad you enjoyed it, and many thanks for the help, all.
As to the relative heat of the coils - I have no clue whatsoever. I haven't had occasion to grab one before while a bike was running.
I will plan on taking it for a spin tomorrow and we'll see how it goes!
In hindsight, the OEM fusebox was the archilles heel of quite a few Yamahas in the 80's so it's no great surprise that this might have been the problem.
Glad to hear you got it fixed....although seeing if it will still run whilst engulfed in a kero fireball would be a far more interesting test to watch ;D
Glad to hear you got it fixed....although seeing if it will still run whilst engulfed in a kero fireball would be a far more interesting test to watch ;D
If my wife was on one of those see and say toys it would be like "the wife says WHEN YOU GONNA STOP FUCKING WITH THAT OLD JUNK MOTORCYCLES, IT ALL YOU EVER DO....AND IT JUST GOING TO BREAK AGAIN, DUMBASS I THOUGHT YOU COULD FIX STUFF" you may have to pull the string twice to get it all out
TripleKing
Been Around the Block
Rich Ard, every connection I could find was cleaned. This is the last thing holding up the project and I am baffled.
Re: Re: Charging system leaves local man baffled
"The wife says...I saw a guy actually riding a motorcycle today, and it looked like a lot of fun! Whirrrrr."
I would check voltage drop across the wires running from the regulator to the battery, and that your ground strap is solid. Does it function aside from not charging?
bradj said:
"The wife says...I saw a guy actually riding a motorcycle today, and it looked like a lot of fun! Whirrrrr."
TripleKing said:
I would check voltage drop across the wires running from the regulator to the battery, and that your ground strap is solid. Does it function aside from not charging?