cl360 clicks but wont start

[hillset]

Hi everyone- First post here but I've been lurking the boards for a while.

I have a 74 cl360 that I purchased last year, but due to school I haven't had much time to work on it until now. The bike started up fine on electric start and kick start about a month ago when I took it for a short weekend ride, but this morning when I went to start her up, I only heard a single click when I'd press the start button. The lights / turn signals are working fine, but I don't get a spark. Only a single click that sounds like its coming from the solenoid or fuse box.

I made sure the battery is fully charged and its showing 12.6v on my multimeter. I've also checked the obvious things (ignition key is not in park position, kill switch is in proper position). I also checked all of the fuses and they all appear to be fine. Can anyone point me in the right direction on what/how to check whats wrong? Thanks for the help.

 

[trek97]

Be absolutely certain its in neutral. With key and kill off. Momentarily touch a heavy (atleast 14 gauge) jumper wire between the two large connections top of the solenoid. The starter should turn over. If it does, you need a new solenoid. dont buy a cheap ebay one. I had one pick and stick. It ran the starter until the battery died.

Also, Clean those large connections. And battery connection and connection at the starter motor. Use your meter to make sure your getting 12v to the starter motor. If you are getting 12v to the starter motor when using key and starter button and it clicks...it may be time for a starter rebuild.

Or, your battery has taken a shit. It may read 12v but dont have the amps to back it up.

 

[hillset]

Thank you so much for your help Trek! I've heard before that you can use a large flathead screwdriver to jump the solenoid terminals to test it, but I've been nervous to do this. Is this a good way to test the solenoid or should I use a jumper cable to connect the two terminals? I have one for my car, would you suggest just running one of the jumper wires from one terminal to the other?

I don't think the battery is the issue (at least I hope not). I replaced the battery a couple of months ago and have only ridden it briefly once.

I'll clean the connections tonight and try to bypass the solenoid. Any suggestions on a good source for a solenoid online if that's what the problem turns out to be?

I'll be sure to post an update when I get everything cleaned / tested. Thanks again for the help.

 

[trek97]

I went w stock Honda solenoid. It was pricey. But I was pretty pissed off about the cheap one, as it was brand new.
Just do some searches.
And get a Battery tender jr. to keep the battery healthy. it comes w a short plug to wire permanent to battery and tuck it in somewhere. Then you simply park it and plug it in. dont even need to raise the seat.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0123-Junior-Charger/dp/B000CITK8S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1464568858&sr=8-1&keywords=battery+tender+jr

 

[trek97]

shorting across w a screwdriver would work. just dont weld it to the frame.

 

[hillset]

Hey Trek- I gave bypassing the solenoid a shot tonight. Had the key in the right position, bike in neutral, kill switch not engaged, and ran a screwdriver across both terminals, and I got nothing. No sparks, no click, no engine engaging, nothing. The battery was fully charged so I'm guessing the solenoid is bad? I was going to test the volts getting to the starting motor tomorrow (need to go get a pair of alligator clips for my multimeter), is it even worth it if i know the solenoid is bad based on the screwdriver test today? I'm going to try pulling the solenoid and really cleaning the connections in the morning as one last shot before I order I knew one (they're pretty rusty), but assuming its still no dice, should I go ahead and order a new solenoid?

Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate it.

 

[trek97]

no, if you shorted across the solenoid terminals and got nothing. Its not the solenoid.

Sounding like battery or starter.

try your jumper cables, connect one end to battery hot and momentarily touch the other end of the same lead to the starter connection on the starter.

Auto parts store can load test your battery...free. auto zone or whatever you got close.

 

[hillset]

Ok good deal, so its not the solenoid.

I'll try the jumper cables from the + end of the battery to the connection at the starter motor in the morning. I'm guessing if I don't get anything, then the starter is bad and should be rebuilt? I haven't opened the starter up since I bought the bike (one of the screws in the starter motor casing is really close to being stripped and I'm crossing my fingers I don't have to open it up), but its certainly possible that its time for a rebuild.

I'll also take the battery in tomorrow to be load tested. The battery is basically brand new though, I bought it about a month ago and haven't taken the bike for any serious rides. If it turns out the battery is the issue, what could cause it to go bad so quickly? It's a Yussa battery which I thought were supposed to be pretty good, but I guess its always possible it was a lemon from the factory. Is it possible there is some short somewhere in the wiring that's draining the battery causing it to go bad so quickly? Or am I getting ahead of myself with that?

Thanks again for the help Trek - I'll let you know what I figure out tomorrow and keep the thread updated in case anyone has similar problems in the future.

 

[trek97]

Yes keep me posted.

In case it comes to that...you can break free stuck/stripped starter mounting bolts using 8" channel locks or even vice grips. Ask me how I know. Because I soaked it, heated it, beat on it w impact screwdriver & 3 lb hammer till I turned blue. Then Swapmeet Louie recommended 8" channel locks. I used vice grips. he chewed my ass for using vice grips...but they worked.

LOL those were the good ole days.

If you need a chuckle...

Posted here... http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=27417.msg422992#msg422992
Continued here... http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=27417.msg423159#msg423159
and even more here... http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=27417.msg423193#msg423193

 

[trek97]

and yes youre getting ahead of yourself. If the battery tests good...and your starter dont spin hooked driectly to battery, we will go from there.
You need the ground lug of the battery clean and hooked to bike frame in a clean solid location. The starter grounds itself through the case mount.

 

[hillset]

Haha the comment that got me was "I didn't use the channel locks...but I can reinstall the bolt and use them to get it out if you want me to" ;D

I'll let you know how things go today. Planning on trying to jump the starter motor first, even if that works I'm going to take the battery into autozone to have it load tested just to be sure. Also want to try to get the starter case open now that I know I can use the channel locks. Probably wouldn't hurt to at least clean out the starter motor and see if I can't replace the semi-stripped screw. I'll also take off the starter connection and ground and clean them up to make sure I'm getting good contact on both. Thanks again for the help trek.

 

[trek97]

haha, sometimes I can be a bit of a smarty pants. :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-REPAIR-REBUILD-KIT-Honda-CB-175-200-350-360T-CL175-200-350-360-CJ-SL-/230847956334?fits=Year%3A1976%7CModel%3ACB360T&hash=item35bf9c456e:g:KeEAAOSwRLZUJT9X&vxp=mtr

If you install stainless bolts into aluminum. some kind of thread sealant is a MUST. SS and aluminum are the worst materials about galling. Anti seize, locktite, I use Real-tuff thread sealant w teflon its good to +550f wont harden and torque-able. and $14 will get you virtual lifetime supply.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-1974-76-CB360-CL360-POLISHED-STAINLESS-ENGINE-BOLT-KIT-/310191403455?hash=item4838d931bf:m:mAXevjwFsbfnJFGtqDZ3_Eg&vxp=mtr

http://www.amazon.com/HOMAX-PRODUCTS-15620-RealTuf-Sealant/dp/B000BPOOXI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1464643477&sr=8-3&keywords=real+tuff+thread+sealant

 

[hillset]

Hey Trek- Just a quick update from my day. After a few hours, I was finally able to get all of the screws off of the starter motor and get it removed. One of the screws came off pretty easy with the pliers, the other one I ended up having to drill out : :-\ Either way its finally off and I've started to get it apart on the workbench.

When I started to disassemble it, I realized the 4 screws on the starter motor are stuck and wont come off with a phillips (see the picture). I'm guessing these need to come off for the internals of the starter motor to come out? I haven't been able to get the rotor out yet and I didnt want to try to force it, so I'm assuming these need to come out first. Went to the motorcycle shop today to see if they could get the screws off with an impact and everything was closed for memorial day, so I'll try again tomorrow.

Other than that, the starter motor definitely needs to be cleaned, its full of carbon. I'm thinking about just going ahead and getting the rebuild kit since I have it open, but I don't really want to wait a whole week to get it back on the bike...might just bite the bullet and do it the right way though.

I took the battery off and I'm charging it now before I take it to autozone to get load tested, I'll let you know what they say. I also topped it off with acid last night just to make sure that wasn't causing any issues.

I'm planning on just replacing the two screws from the starter motor that were stripped with allen bolts from lowes / home depot, I'll make sure to get the sealant you mentioned. The previous owner replaced all of the bolts on the engine side cases with allen bolts so I don't think I need the full kit. Hopefully one of the big box stores will have the right size allen bolt to match. Anything I need to watch out for when I'm getting the replacements?

Thanks again for the advice, I'll let you know what I find out from the battery load test and I'll post an update when I'm able to get the starter motor screws out.

 

[trek97]

Here is the link to my google drive. Free. Official Honda workshop manual for the 360. You can view and if you look at the top of the page I believe you can download it and save it to your desktop...forever or even print it ( its pretty big to print, but I did most of it.)

Let me know if it works for you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B94qfPnRdKQaYmFCd0dWRGprWFE/view?usp=sharing

Ps if you have a Clymer manual you can now burn it.

 

[trek97]

Honda service bulletin. Oil pickup update. When you open the left side engine case to clean oil filter its best to swap out the original equipment oil pickup w one from a CJ360. If you watch ebay they go up for sale on occasion. search "CJ360 oil pickup".

 

[hillset]

Trek - YOU ARE THE MAN! Thank you so much for the manual. And I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the CJ360 filter since I was planning on cleaning the oil filter soon.

Just to double check, the 4 screws on the outside of the starter casing need to come out in order to fully remove the commutator? The image on p.103 of the manual makes it look like the screws are in contact with the commutator, but I'm not entirely clear if the screws need to come out in order for the commutator to be removed.

Battery is currently at auto zone getting load tested, I'll let you know what they say.

 

[trek97]

Dude I was thinking about that earlier and I cant hardly remember doing it. I was pretty rushed at the time getting building my engine under a deadline to get her to Barber vintage fest down in alabama. heres a pretty decent vid from ricks motorsports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXuEbW0ML0

 

[jpmobius]

You should NOT have to remove the screws circled in your photo. Those screws hold the stator(field) windings into the center housing. The whole starter is assembled by the long bolts that clamp the two end caps to each other with the housing in the center. Only the windings are bolted to the housing, the two ends are simply clamping the housing between them. Once you remove the clamping bolts (most old bike starters have just two), the whole thing comes apart. Most of the time you can just replace the brushes, clean up the commutator, and grease the bearings and you are good to go. Be careful when you remove both end caps and check for shims which can either fall out unnoticed or stay stuck and hidden with old grease.

 

[hillset]

Hey Trek (and JP) - I finally found someone around here to help me with the starter motor. The commutator was stuck because there is a small wire that attaches on the inside of the housing to the bolt that connects to the power supply on the outside of the housing. When I took of the nut connecting the power supply to the starter motor, this bolt turned and twisted the wire inside, blocking the commutator. I had to readjust the bolt and flatten the wire with a flat head in order to get the commutator out, but I finally got it (hope all of that makes sense).

Once I got the commutator out and the starter motor disassembled, I cleaned out each part pretty thoroughly with electrical cleaner and reassembled. The brushes looked they they were in good shape and the commutator didn't have any damage, so I'm going to try it as-is and order the replacement brushes / rebuild kit if I need to. I'm planning on going to lowes tonight to get the replacement attachment bolts and the thread sealant and hopefully get it reattached to the bike tonight.

The battery was load tested last night and the store told me it was good to go. I have it back in the bike so I should be able to test it again with the cleaned starter motor tonight. I'll let you know what happens when I get everything reattached and tested.

Thanks for the help, and for the advice on the screws JP. One thing I noticed was that the cardboard shim on one side of the cap was torn when I disassembled the starter motor, but I was able to put it back together with the proper alignment so it fits normally. It doesn't seem like this should be a huge deal, but am I going to run into trouble down the line with a torn cardboard shim on the inside of the starter motor even if the torn ends line up when reassembled?

 

[alzcbz]

If the bike was having problems starting with the kick starter and the starter solenoid was just giving you a click, I would bet the battery was just low.
A fully charged battery should be about 13v. New batteries don't usually come fully charged. The charging systems on these bikes is marginal, at best. No charging below 2000 rpms.

I would try using a car to jump start your bike. The car not running.
It was probably just good maintenance to clean the starter motor, it wouldn't hurt.