DIY girder forks?

VonYinzer

Over 10,000 Posts
Anyone ever built a set? Have any info on how one might go about it? I would love to try and make my own for an upcoming project. I've seen a bunch of home built springers that look and function very well. Even a girder set up or two. Anyhow, if anyone has anything to toss into the idea pile go for it. Thanks...

Oh, and I'm shooting for somethingIke this:



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I saw a hand forged girder on the net somewhere that had some awesome scroll work. I'd love to do something ike that, just to see if I could do it with a hammer and anvil.. My concern would be steel composition, and the effect of the heat on the metal.

The version you posted looks doable out of mild steel with moderate engineering. Looks pretty damn dainty though.
 
Can't say I haven't thought about it, but yeah, the chance of fatality. Very ambitious!
 
Cs you do know that you heat metal to work it and the more you work it with a hammet the harder it gets so much so that it will need heated several times to black smith any part ypu have to heat steel to the point where its not magnetic (real fucking hot) and let air kool for the metal to lose temper properties and its all reversable wrlding normal heating and kooling does very little to strength i work in a fab shop everyday with real deal stressed parts they dont fall into a pile of twisted scrap if they get hot

ive also made knives and hammer welden carbon into them. hot enuff to bend and hot enuff to permanently soffen are way different
 
dainty ???????????? have you seen some of the pre-war girders !!!!

I'm looking at going down a similar route for my Cafe Creme Boardtracker, but was looking at the Vincent Girdraulic fork for inspiration / looks.

The front blade is an alloy forging, but could easily be duplicated using steel. The tubes at the rear that LOOK as if they're dampers, in fact contain the springs. A lot of folk simply swap in a coil ocer and use the rear tubes as dummies.

Don't even THINK about looking for Vinnie forks - £1000 [ $1600 ] will just about buy you a set that needs total refurb - a further £1000 :o

img189.jpg
 
A lot of alloys loose hardness when taken to, or near to critical (non-magnetic). A mild steel like 1018 wouldn't suffer from the shaping within reason, but an alloy like L6 begins to loose structure at 400*. Even a mild 1018 cold rolled bar will begin to loose the rigidity of work hardening at 500*.

If you were to forge a front end out of chrome alloy, or a higher carbon steel (1045+) the uneven application of heat could render the piece weaker in areas that got hotter, or stayed hot longer. When you forge a knife the metal has to be relaxed by normalizing/annealing prior to hardening or tempering to prevent cracks in the carbon crystalline structure which weaken the blade. That doesn't even touch on the science behind quench hardening, and temp control in tempering. You'd need pretty precise equipment to get good results.

Work hardening with a hammer on steel does little more than refine surface grain, and also leaves inconsistencies in strength. Overworking certain steels outside of a narrow temperature window can cause stress fractures as well. All of which can lead to catastrophic failure under load.

Now if you are working in iron or mild steel, no big deal. Those materials bend much easier, and don't have the shape memory of spring steel, so you would need a much beefier set up with those materials than with something more rigid. Without doing any math, this could all be pointless. For all I know a 1/4" mild steel tube girder completely annealed has all the tensile strength needed to do the job, but I doubt it.

The first real blade I ever forge was a Filipino talibong out of a leaf spring (I was 13). I worked it too cold, and use a brine for my quench. The damn thing fractured and broke into 3 pieces. It all comes down to what materials you're using, the forging processes involved, and the stress to be applied to the finished product.
 
CS - I was thinking more along the lines of laser cut steel.

The Vinnie set up had a huge bridge piece bolted across the front above the tyre - I'd be doing that even with the stock girder style shown.
 
Sounds good to me. I have seen quite a few recently machined out of aluminum too. Flat stock would make it easier to keep everything square, too.
 
Come here ya big lug give us a kiss.

you bastards and your math. all i know is when i was 13 i was watching scrambled porn and every 5 mins or so i would see the corner of a tit, i would still call it a win. Plus nothing i have ever built has killed me yet

a whole shit ton of guys on this site get bogged down in the extream what ifs
and never try. even mild steel is tuffer than a hunk of wood and people mapped the globe in ships made of wood your science is lost on me. im not saying be careless in how you build something, but fuck man my mom let me play tackle football with the older kids when i was little. science would have had me in padded bubble with filtered air and a shrink to get me past the anger that come with a contact sport. so i got tossed around a little i learned something. I learned the chicks i run with dont blow nerds in the bath room at the bar but a scare or two never hurt your chances. so ill stand my ground with fuck science
 
CrescentSon said:
Sounds good to me. I have seen quite a few recently machined out of aluminum too. Flat stock would make it easier to keep everything square, too.

I looked at having the blades water jet cut [ alloy ]and suitably strengthened, but problem is when you have to farm stuff like that out the cost becomes prohibitive [ for me anyway ].

My pal AC has quite a bit of stuff laser cut for his C and D Type replicas, so that would be a reasonably economical way to go. Just needs some thought as to the design [ or not ] on / in the blade to lighten it up a tad - holes, scrolls, fleur de lys ...............

Even for me, this style would be doable as a simple assembly job.
 
bradj said:
Come here ya big lug give us a kiss.

you bastards and your math. all i know is when i was 13 i was watching scrambled porn and every 5 mins or so i would see the corner of a tit, i would still call it a win. Plus nothing i have ever built has killed me yet

a whole shit ton of guys on this site get bogged down in the extream what ifs
and never try. even mild steel is tuffer than a hunk of wood and people mapped the globe in ships made of wood your science is lost on me. im not saying be careless in how you build something, but fuck man my mom let me play tackle football with the older kids when i was little. science would have had me in padded bubble with filtered air and a shrink to get me past the anger that come with a contact sport. so i got tossed around a little i learned something. I learned the chicks i run with dont blow nerds in the bath room at the bar but a scare or two never hurt your chances. so ill stand my ground with fuck science

On the contrary, science tells you what you can get away with. Science helped a fuck all crazy dude skydive from space on Redbull's dime. You think Evil Knievel just hopped on a bike and said, piss off gravity, I got this. Nope, he (or someone more sane) did the math.

For the record, I quit football freshman year and spent high school banging drama chicks in the costume loft. I also failed pre-algebra.
 
Von, I will be building one for my 650, after my GT 550 is done. I am by no means a metallurgy expert, but something tells me the materials and welding technology have come a long way since the race bikes of the 30's, so I'm not worried about dying on it.. That being said, i'm going to tack it together but i'm having someone with their ticket do the final welding for me... I can weld but i don't do it often enough or with enough skill to trust it on anything structural, I have a buddy that does drag car chassis's that will tig it for me.. And i'll ride it knowing that it isn't going to be the same bike came out of Yamaha's factory in 1975.. Still looking into what i'm building it out of, are not millions of motorcycle frames mild steel??? I'm thinking along the lines of these... Will be building it probably through the summer and next winter...
 

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Ok... Well the merits of scientific research and development aside... Haha.

I can make the triple trees, reinforcement/ mounting plates, etc in my spare time at work. As far as the tubing goes, ill have it professionally bent up once I can find the dimensions Ill need.

My real questions lie with the spring...
 
Looking at all these, the majority of the stresses would be in bolts that hold it all together. They are the the pivots for all the joints and are in shear stresses. As for the tube fork its self, just make sure you use a heavy enough wall, don't over think it and go almost solid bar as it's unnecessary weight. depending on the length, 120" wall should be fine. Just like doing any suspension, make sure all your geometry is correct and with no binding.
If you seen some of the aircraft with .035" wall chromoly with welds that look like birds shit welds on them that don't fall from the sky. And looking at your pics, none of the welds look to be load bearing. Shoot me a pm when you figure it out. I can bend and weld the tube if you like.
 
VonYinzer said:
Ok... Well the merits of scientific research and development aside... Haha.

I can make the triple trees, reinforcement/ mounting plates, etc in my spare time at work. As far as the tubing goes, ill have it professionally bent up once I can find the dimensions Ill need.

My real questions lie with the spring...

Simple answer is to use a coil over, that way you can fine tune the spring rate.
 
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