Down under, an idiot and a 400F

[ronnie]

I have a head I bought on ebay thinking I was going to have to replace mine after my valve guide fiasco.. but I ended up finding a guy to fix the original head. I'm still waiting on it to get back from him, but if I don't need that head you can buy that one i got from ebay.. Just a thought, i know I'm in the US and shipping will probably be crazy, but I might be able to get a deal on the shipping(know a guy.....).

 

[neevo]

Sounds good ronnie, and parts are usually sourced from the US as there aren't too many here in Oz.

Let me know when it arrives and we will sort something out. Might have to wait till my net allowance day as I'm all tapped out this month with the barrels.

 

[ronnie]

Yea, no problem. I'll let you know. Also, if you need anything else, if its cheaper here in the states you can buy it and I'll thow it in the box with the head, might be cheaper to ship it all at once? Just a thought, but I'll keep you posted.

 

[neevo]

Yea, no problem. I'll let you know. Also, if you need anything else, if its cheaper here in the states you can buy it and I'll thow it in the box with the head, might be cheaper to ship it all at once? Just a thought, but I'll keep you posted.

Thanks ronnie. I'm pretty good for parts at the moment, only thing I might order would be some merge collectors from Meg's but I need to wait for my next cash injection anyway.

When you get the head can you check some things and flick me some pics? Want to make sure I don't end up with a 3rd farked head.

Eg
1. Are combustion chambers good (no pitting or damage)
2. Are spark plug threads good (no damaged threads or stuck plugs in them)
3. Are cam surfaces free from damage/scuffs
4. Is the head flat (not warped)
5. Are valve guides good
6. Are there no broken/damaged fins
7. Are all the exhaust studs there or no damage to the threads

I think that's it. Did you buy a complete head or just the head itself?

Anyone know what parts you can mix and match? Can you match different heads with cam covers? Can you mix and match valves and rockers (or keep them together as a set)?

 

[ronnie]

Everything checks out, I'm offshore so I can't send any pictures at the moment. I soda blasted it already cause at that point I was going to use it. So the combustion chambers are clean and look good. I didn't run a plug through, but they all appeared fine. I'm sure running a tap through them to clean them up would be fine. Cam surfaces look good, nothing other than normal wear. Definitely nothing like yours haha! Not sure about the flatness of the head, never put it on a piece of glass. I got my head surfaced anyways, so I would do it to any head before I installed it on my bike. That was always the weak link on these bikes to make them leak. The top of the guides look fine, the head is complete so I haven't taken it apart to see about clearance. But the head came off a running bike, or that's what the listing said and the video had it running..... No damaged fins that I remember. And all exhaust studs are in good order and not damaged.

I'm not sure about mix matched parts you are talking about, but I tried to use my 350f head before I bought the 2nd head, it fit fine, but the comb. chambers were a few millis off. As far as valves, I haven't found anything that swaps with it. You pretty much have to get them from TT400r (about 550 bucks and they are titanium) or special order from Kibblewhite, which I'm sure isn't cheap. But unless you are looking to sink a crap load of money in the engine, I would keep them together. Maybe your cheapest bet is sending your cam off to get rephased. I got mine rephased to a mild street cam(350 for that)..

 

[neevo]

Sounding good ronnie

Send over a few pics when you're back and well sort out a deal. Cheers.

 

[crazypj]

I would use a Dremel to cut out bump of embedded material and probably use a small ball end burr to cur an oil groove.
Definitely wouldn't junk head, may find someone even more desperate for a good head that's recoverable

 

[kopcicle]

Alright I've seen enuff to say you have one of the kool east Hondas on dtt

Okay who are you , where is Brad and what have you done with him ...

~kop

 

[neevo]

Maybe brad had an out of body experience after a dodgy brew in the shed and too many welding fumes

Good news today. Barrels are ready to be picked up

 

[crazypj]

8)
all coming together, got to admire your patience and persistence

 

[neevo]

8)
all coming together, got to admire your patience and persistence

No choice PJ, my allowance only allows a certain pace. I think this is a good thing otherwise I would have thrown even more money at it!

 

[neevo]

Barrels are ready

Picking them up this afternoon. 466cc and he even put the chamfer back on the bottom.

Now to find a vapour blaster for the cases!

 

[crazypj]

8)

 

[neevo]

Oh yeah! We have pistons that now fit into the motor

Picked up the barrels today and the machinest did a cracking job. Turns out the pistons were made pretty well, 3 were exactly the same dimensions and the last was 0.05mm off, so the bores were matched accordingly. The chamfer was redone too to help ring install although I will probably pony up some cash and buy some ring compressors so I don't bugger anything up.

Couldn't resist putting it together quickly:

Ronnie: sorry to play silly buggers with you but I think I've found a head locally. Turns out the chap that did the boring used to race 350's back in the day and cheekily used some 400 parts. He's got a solid, great condition head he will sell me for $200 (including new valve seats cut, seals and decking) which is a bloody good deal I can't pass up (shipping from the US would be at least half that alone). I hope you can still sell the head locally.

 

[Brodie]

Looking good Neevo. They are some nice looking pistons. Very close clearance on the sleeves lol.

 

[ronnie]

Hey man, you don't need compressors to install those pistons. I didn't use them, and i have the same set up as you. Plus my guy didn't put any chamfer in mine. Install all the pistons in their jugs facing the correct way, but first put the keeper rings in on the inner side of all the pistons. Then just slide the two inner pistons down till just before the lower ring gets to the bottom of the jug. Rotate the crank to put the two inner rods up, then use a pair of small needle nose pliers(the pins are pretty darn hard so the pliers shouldn't mess up the pins{mine didn't}) to put the pins into the pistons from the outer side of the block.(remember,put the keeper rings on the inner side of the pistons so when you push the pin in you only have to do the easily accessed outer snap ring). Next rotate the crank carefully to pull the whole block down that way the connected inner pistons down and the outer rods should all be equal level. Now push the previously installed outer pistons down until just before the ring comes out. Line up the rod and put the pin in, then the keeper ring. Next push block down slowly into place agains the case. Oh and use assembly lube on the pins to aid sliding them in. Don't get it in the jugs, or the rings won't seat properly.

I read over that, and I think it makes sense haha, but yea.. You don't "need" compressors, though I'm sure they are nice. But I didn't want to buy them and I didn't know anyone with ring compressors that small. We have them but for big diesel engines haha!

No worries about the head man, it was just trying to help. Glad you found one locally that is ready to go! Thats great news.

 

[neevo]

Thanks for that ronnie, I will have to read that a few times to get my head around it. I've found some cheap ring compressors on eBay in the right size so I'm thinking for $20 (for both) it's cheap insurance and much easier to use them.

Appreciate the offer of help on the head, feel a bit guilty leaving you hanging like that. Cheers for everything.

 

[o1marc]

While I have heard the pistons can be put in without ring compressors the stories I've heard of the nightmares from broken rings, frustration getting the circlips in, etc, far exceed the stories of " It was a piece of cake without clamps"

 

[neevo]

While I have heard the pistons can be put in without ring compressors the stories I've heard of the nightmares from broken rings, frustration getting the circlips in, etc, far exceed the stories of " It was a piece of cake without clamps"

I'm sure many can do it, I'm not sure I'm one of the many

I struggled with getting a single cylinder piston into my KTM with a huge taper at the bottom, so I think $20 into compressors will be a good investment for me.

 

[hillsy]

I put new rings in a z1300 with my brother - by hand. It's easier in my opinion to do it by hand because you can see what you are doing a bit better without having ring compressors in the way.

Mount the pistons to the rods first. Cut up some "U" shaped bits of pine to slot under the skirts of the middle pistons to hold them up / straight. Lower the cylinders over the middle 2 pistons and push the rings into the pistons (a small flat bladed screwdriver or probe can help). The bottom of the sleeves should be tapered to allow the pistons to slide in easier (I assume there's still a taper there after the bore increase?).

Then move the wood blocks to the outer 2 pistons and repeat.

Just be careful and don't break out the sledgehammers and you'll be fine

Also, it's best to have a helper to make sure the block comes down square.