While it sounds like a great advantage to go with the thicker fork tubes and wider center to center distance ie axle width, I don't see all of tha tnecessary unless your entire design revolves around retaining the re-sale value of that 4LS hub. So are you gonna SELL the hub, or USE it? I'm putting one on a KZ440 right now, and I don't see a problem with grinding down the hubs on the plates. Mind you, I've got a spare front end from an '82 CB750F, with the alloy lower triple from CB900FZ '79 - it's just a question of how much MORE extra weight I wanna throw on that front end. Unless I'm on the bike and I SEE -actually WITNESS - some front end shudder or other indication that the forks I've got aren't up to the damned job, well then I'll stick with the lighter stuff so far as I can. I like the idea of messing with the 33mm forks on my lil' KZ, as there are Kawi Dirt-bike 33mm forks with alloy lower triples, air assist caps, all sorts of stuff like that which should be adaptable to my front end. These 33mm's don't have good bushings in 'em and stuff, but I'm sure there are other ways of doing it. Always best to look into using bushings and alternate bearings where possible.... I mean, you don't think that tapered roller bearings are ONLY MADE IN MOTORCYCLE SIZES ha ha - get the #'s and order odd-ball bearings from a bearing supplier, use a spacer bushing or two, stuff like THAT - rather than going to the trouble of pressing out necks in triples etc etc - for one thing not a lot of the things CAN be pressed out, not neatly. Maybe lathed down sacrificing the whole lower yoke - but yeah, better to play with the bearings than mess with swapping stems and stuff - I mean, the stem's gotta be long enough, strong enough, and it's gotta fit some bearings that will fit the frame. And the lower yoke can have a spacer between the frame and the lower yoke, just so long as you've got a bearing mounted in there. Nevertheless, I'm still looking into an alloy lower triple on these 33's hopefully there's something AS wide off those Kawi dirt-bikes - maybe a later era min-bike type of deal like a '90s 125cc race bike type of deal SOME of those had 33mm fork tubes only in wider axles and less "off-set" forward of the steering neck, etc etc - still, I do much prefer the LOOK of the vintage stuff, there's only so much I'm willing to give up for saving that weight or changing some aspect of geometry etc etc - I'm sure it's the same for the Brit bike snobs, they're willing to accept a 4LS drum off a Japanese bike, but once you start accepting OTHER superior technology ... well it's all "down-hill" from there, as seeking to replace British parts with any Japanese part that's better well it could really snow-ball until there's NOTHING LEFT ha ha ha. But yeah, I'M putting the 4LS drum on a 440 commuter and I still regard that as pushing the limits, I figure a 350 race bike would be light and under-powered too so maybe it'll come out with adequate braking. The people who would put these brakes on bigger bikes are crazy. And going with a much bigger fork you're putting more weight on and there-by contributing to even more stress on these brakes. If I were to take this 440 and ... apply the same tech to it that a lot of CB350 vintage race nuts do, the same money etc - I think the 440cc's, bored out to 500-550cc's well that would put it right up there with the original GT550 which was fitted with my brake unit. I figure it's superior - especially if set up right with good shoes and stuff, it will be superior to the single-pot disc brake originally fitted to the KZ440LTD! I really hope to do some endos on this thing, just like I've done on my old C70 Passport - I've snapped brand new brake cables on that thing and I've done plenty of endos on it though not nearly as many wheelies ha ha - maybe about one tenth as many as I did two block long cat-walks ha ha - but yeah, ENDOS on C70 SLS tiny assed little drum brakes. This 440 is for my daughter's first "proper" bike, but still, I hope that at some point when we put some kind of stunt sprocket on the thing, it will be up to snuff for changing a lot of minds about drum brakes and how well they can work! The axiom of "discs are better" just doesn't apply to those dinky first generation single discs, and probably not to a good many dual disc systems that aren't in any decent state of tune! I've got FZR1000 rotors for my wire spoked DOHC CB750F project here, and I figure that's how I'll get some good stopping power on the thing. But when I crunched the numbers, especially the WEIGHT of it all, as well as cost and complexity for her future care when it's HER bike - I saw the 4LS as a viable option, even GIVEN the exhorbitant prices these hubs go for. 'Cause the only other way was to do a similar front end as my DOHC Honda including forks and all, (might have been smart, seeing as I wanna get her on a DOHC of her own in a few years time) and all of that damned weight would obviate the possibility of doing any wheelies, as well as speed and handling etc etc etc. Stuff was made small for a reason in the first place, you know? It's not like they couldn't make 'em bigger back then! Ha ha. So balance must be struck, I guess that's what I'm saying. Simply put, your first idea about cutting down the hub plate's ... "nipples"? Nubs? I dunno what you'd call 'em. But if anybody else out there wants to use the brake some day, if they want to "restore" a late model Buffalo/Kettle/"LeMans" back to first year standard aka FAKE it - well they'll lose far less concours restoration contest points on their other BS than they'd lose on re-built "nubs" or spacers put in there to make up for their lack, etc etc. I mean, shit they do look cool and everything. But a really tight fork with that big of a drum in the middle looks damned cool too. Gonna have to grind the shit off of these brake shoe plates, 'cause I'm using a 3x16 rim with 110/70-16 scooter tire it'll probably come right up to the fender mount lugs so either there's no way to mount a fender there or I'll have to grind 'em off - then the brake caliper lugs on the back of these fork legs will mount the shoe stay torque arms etc, and most of that structure would be extraneous so it'll get ground off too, then the fender could go on a fork brace or maybe even get stuck up on rods off the shoe plates or something, kinda like a Duc sport-classic style fender, I dunno - but yeah the whole fork sliders are gonna be messed up and cleaned up. But cutting away material from the axle clamps themselves that sounds bloody dangerous. I could see opening up the end of the fork tube for a new clamp, with a thicker hollow axle, etc etc - easier done with a titanium axle - but yeah, I can't see taking the same clamp and making it narrower. That's just nuts. I suppose, if you really really had to do it, the best way would be to use some yokes from one of those later, smaller race bikes, 120cc-250cc, that still used the 33-35-37mm fork tubes in the later decades. Then perhaps it could be done with odd-ball bearings, and if the neck isn't long enough then the lower yoke COULD be spun down and set into a different yoke, as the alloy type yokes have always - well I should never say never - there's (almost?) ALWAYS a steel neck stem in those alloy yokes. Either pressed in or clamped, often both. If the stem's too thin for the clamp it could be welded up and re-ground, or the other steel yoke could remain welded on and then be spun down as though it were a spacer, maybe an additional weld around the upper rim, and then stuffed into a yoke. Might be worth doing if you saved a lot of weight, or significantly changed the geometry, but I think it's a heck of a lot more straight-forward to adapt the hub to fit the bike, not the other way 'round. I can see stuffing this hub into a different bike some day, more like stuffing regenerative electric brakes into the hub, in place of it's drum linings and shoes, but yeah I can see the hub being utilized on further projects down the way, yet -whether it's on an old Suzuki or some new-fangled contraption, the hub will adapt one way or another. And if somebody THINKS he's gonna get this hub off of MY projects and onto HIS projects ... I swear I'd be really pissed off at that kid if she broke the bike down some day and didn't save the wheels for another project of her own.... Suffice it to say, the re-sale value of the hub is a NON-ISSUE. Ha ha. Besides, at the prices these things are selling for nowadays, they ought to be reproduced in a replica series. It would sure be great to see the old school perfect replica stuff given a bit of honest competition from a NEW drum hub design that doesn't strive to look exactly like some rare piece of kit, rather just a general impression of being a period piece, only it could have all sorts of cool options such as electric regenerative innards etc etc.... Thing is, there are still a lot of 2LS single sided brakes that work just about as well, that nobody holds in any high esteem, and as such can still be had for a reasonable price. some of 'em look a lot better than their 4LS counterparts too. I almost broke down and bought the T500 2LS drum instead, given that it's so damned beautiful!
-S.
