Front end shaking vertically

Nealox

New Member
Probably there are many possible causes but maybe you guys could give some extra insight in the problem.
I have a CB 450 DX which is a bike only made in Brazil. It is a lot like a CM400 but with a little more tech.
The original wheels are alloy but I had some spoke wheels made. I've changed the front rim to a 18" from an original 19".
I fit a Metzeller Perfect Me 77 4.00 tyre in the front and the back of the bike. It is a tyre designed to be used in the rear but I figured there would be no problems.
I was wrong... The front of the bike shakes vertically at around 40 It feels like bumps in the road. It gets less noticeable as speed increases.
Any Ideas? Tks for your help!
 
Tks for you help. I was thinking to start by balancing it. But since its a custom wheel the shops tend to complain a lot...
 
Who laced it for you? Needs to be trued and made round / centered on the hub by someone who knows what they're doing. Lacing a rim is easy - it's the truing etc. that is the challenge.
 
I was thinking that the shop that missed it the first time wouldn't be able to hit it the second try.
I live in a country that does not offer a lot of resources in the custom world. So I'm doing my bike and learning in the process. I believe I could adjust the spokes myself but I'm not sure about the truing. If it is done by an specific machine them I could look for it but if is done by eye Im willing to try it out...
 
You need a truing stand (which you can buy or make) and patience.

If you aren't game, try a bicycle shop - find the right one and they'll teach you.
 
Try this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-wheel-balancing-stand-98488.html

image_12894.jpg


39.99 on sale, look around in some magazines for a 20% off coupon. I got mine (see it in my build) for $32 after the sale and coupon.

Caveat Emptor: The shaft is a 1/2" shaft that sometime isn't exactly straight. I bought a 1/2 rod from sear Hardware for $6 (found a straight one) and the stand works fantastic.

My build shows me using a nylon tie taped to the stand legs for truing. Hi tech at its best.
 
Nealox said:
I live in a country that does not offer a lot of resources in the custom world.

I assume you're not in the US, so the Harbour Freight stand probably won't be any good to you.

But, you can make something similar out of timber / steel and use your wheel axle to bolt the wheel in. You want to use the axle spacers too because you want the wheel to be tight in the jig (unlike the HF balancer stand). Then you need a dial gauge (or two) to measure the runout vertically and sideways.

BTW - you adjust the spokes to true the wheel. That's how it's done.
 
Tank you all for the advice. I'm in Brazil, I could get international shipping but I've found a stand for about 60US, so I'll give it a go. Found some vids on the net showing the process.
Maybe you guys can help me a little further. Since the Hub is custom made I is kind of big like the big drum bake bikes.
This one for instance
http://www.bikeexif.com/suzuki-st400-tempter
My spokes didn't quite get the right angle and had to be convinced to fit.
My question is is there a specie spoke for this tight angle? Cause the spokes "head" that did make the full turn.
Or is it a special rim?
Tks a lot.
 
Nealox said:
My spokes didn't quite get the right angle and had to be convinced to fit.
My question is is there a specie spoke for this tight angle? Cause the spokes "head" that did make the full turn.
Or is it a special rim?
Tks a lot.

Can you post pictures of this? It might very well be related to (or even the cause of) your issue.
 
I hope the picture is off, but the threaded portion of the spoke looks bent where it enters the nipple. That is not safe or right if the picture is accurate.

Only relaced 2 wheels, so I am not an expert, but it looks like you either need a rim with the spoke pockets with a greater angle, or shorter spokes and move one hole closer on the hub. My huch is the spokes are too long for that rim/hub, and you used the wrong rim hole/hub hole pairs.

You need to get new spokes too, as those are now stressed in something other than tension. That bend at the nipple creates a weak point.
 
Nealox said:
Here we go.

The angle those nipples are coming out of the rim don't look right to me. It looks like try are being forced a bit too much. I would be worried about them stripping or popping out.
 
Here's a pic of what I think is wrong....
 

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  • Spoke mislace.jpg
    Spoke mislace.jpg
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The rim appears to be drilled to work with a smaller hub. TO work with your hub it may be necessary to modify teh holes in the dimples or you might get away with changing spokes to a different hole.

What is that hub? It's most unusual.
 
That's a very odd looking front wheel. I've never seen a disk hub with such a large spoke flange diameter like on a drum hub. But yes, the rim is for a small flange disk hub, the nipple angles are way off. And the roundness is probably off too. You can see by elevating the front end until the spinning the wheel.
 
+1.

The rim definitely appears to be for a "front" hub. "front" being the "universal" term for a very small diameter hub with disc brakes fitted which is common. Your front hub is a lot more like drum brake diameter, so the angle is way off. Ideally, you would machine the holes for the spokes to fit the hub you have, but building spoke wheels properly is becoming a lot less common than it used to be, and we have a lot of universal rims being sold. Bicycle guys are great, but they really do not see this as their biggest hub is super tiny compared to the rim diameter, so the spoke angle falls within a pretty narrow range no matter what. Heavier spoke wheels need to have the spokes "aim" at the corresponding hole in the hub. The rims are made "blank' with no holes, and they get drilled in the right spot in that little dimple to get the aim right. It is REALLY hard to tell if the angle is close enough without having all the parts in hand to see how things line up. It is possible to re-machine the rim, but I do not recommend it. The problem is that the hole is actually slightly not in the right place in that little dimple, so to get the landing for the head of the nipple to be aimed correctly, you have to machine material from only one side, making the rim very much thinner there. The hole itself is not really the issue, but the cone shaped counter bore that the nipple rests in. Take your wheel apart, look at the tire side where the spokes are held, and you will see that the nipples were only resting on one side of each landing.

I have machined rims to fix this problem, by taking one spoke out at a time, and cutting a new seat for the nipple. I made a jig that pilots a cutter for the nipple. the jig fits through the existing hole in the rim and locates in the hub's corresponding hole and guides the cutter. it is a pain, but takes less time than you might think. In practice, the cutter of course starts cutting only the "high" side, and I just manually stop cutting when it just starts to cut the opposite side. This of course makes one side of the "hole" a LOT thinner than you would like, which is why I don't recommend doing this unless the rim is pretty beefy, (thick). I have never had a problem, but I consider this risky at best. The alternative would be to slot the hole to bring the nipple around to the proper spot in the dimple, but I think this would be a lot worse. In any event, the best plan is to get a rim drilled for the hub you have. All pro wheel services will require you to give the hub spoke diameter in order to supply a proper rim. They will drill for that, not hand over a "front" rim they have on the shelf.

Of course, this is NOT your shaking problem. Balance or true (as already noted) is. Could also be a tire issue. Either the tire itself, or it not being properly seated in one spot. If you can rule this out, once you get the correct match rim for your hub, you should be able to do the rest of the work yourself. I really hate balancing weights on spoke wheels, so I always run the bike first to see if the wheels actually NEED to be balanced. Most of the time it is fine with no balancing, but I take my wheels to a friends dealership if they do. You have a pretty stout tire there, so maybe that's it, but personally, I have NEVER had a balance issue that was all that alarming. True is another matter. As others have noted, lacing is easy (mostly), and I think trueing is not so daunting as its reputation. I think anyone can do it if they have patience. Some rims are a lot not round, and are really hard to persuade, but mostly not. I still use a wood stand I built when I was a teenager. It is crap, but works fine. and I just use a pointer that clamps down near the tire side of the rim. I true to where the tire seats, and sometimes file the area where the rim is welded together to "straighten" it up a but if the factory grind is sloppy. Ther is a lot of advice on the web for truing wheels, but the bottom line is, go really, REALLY slow, make it round first, then tweak it flat. If you have stainless spokes USE ANTI SEIZE!!!!!!

hope something here is of use. Good Luck!
 
Tks everyone for all the advice! I took the bike to another shop and after putting it on a stand we turned the wheel around and it did look "not round". So I'm guessing it is the cause of the shaking. I've figured is not worthy to try to fix the present setup. I will take the wheel apart and try out mydlyfkryzis's idea.
If I can't get the right spoke size could I just cut them and remake the screw?
If that doesn't work Ill try to decrease the flange size and drill it to match the holes. The hub is odd cause it is made of 2 flanges attached to the original alloy wheel hub that was machined down.
JPMOBIUS very good info, I've never seen a shop that drills custom rims but that would be a solution. Never seen or heard of anyone doing this I'm my area but i'll search the web.
When the spokes are right I'll true it myself so I'm sure it is right.
 
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