Hypothetical sneaky legal question (ownership/registration)

S

shanetyrer

New Member
Posting here to see if anyone has done anything similar to this..
I'm planning on buying my first bike. I was thinking a CB350 or similar.
Because I'm under 25, and I only have low class licenses (M1, G2), My plan to keep insurance costs down, is to try to get a copy of an ownership for a CB175, and try to register the 350 as that... The average person wouldn't be able to tell the difference..

I'd obviously remove all the VIN plate from the 350 bike. I figure if I ever got caught/called on it, I could just argue that when I bought the bike thinking it was a 175, and that I was unaware that the ownerships didn't match.

Let me know if this is a very stupid idea (keeping in mind, I'm not worried about getting "caught" for it). I just want to know if it's feasible..

Thanks.
 
probably... i had the wrong registration in my wallet, i was carrying the reg and insurance papers for my 400, but on my 750, the cop didn't even notice (guess he never even looked at the plate numbers not matching) so... yeah, the law is still public employees, so generally they're not always the sharpest pencils in the jar
 
'click' (turning off microphone)

That's what 5mm alphanumeric punch sets are for....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k55NuWQCh78

"this tape will self destruct in 5 seconds"
 
At one time my room-mate and I had 5 motorcycles between the two of us and I always kept my CB550 registered. Then whatever bike I needed to test-ride would become a 1978 CB 550 even if it did appear to be styled after a 1985 Honda Spree 50. What the cops look for is a little license plate and the right color tag; after that, is the plate that's on there actually registered.
I never had any trouble, but I didn't use any of those bikes as my daily riders, just test-rides around the neighborhood.
 
schjlatah said:
At one time my room-mate and I had 5 motorcycles between the two of us and I always kept my CB550 registered. Then whatever bike I needed to test-ride would become a 1978 CB 550 even if it did appear to be styled after a 1985 Honda Spree 50. What the cops look for is a little license plate and the right color tag; after that, is the plate that's on there actually registered.
I never had any trouble, but I didn't use any of those bikes as my daily riders, just test-rides around the neighborhood.
Click to expand...

this is what my neighbor and i do with bikes we repair then sell... he got pulled over once on an rd450 with the plates off his yamaha... cops didnt even notice a thing.
 
Another point to consider... What would happen if you had an accident that caused personal injury or property damage to someone else. If it was discovered that you were riding a bike other than the one the insurance was for, would your insurance refuse to pay? They may not believe you, or care that you were "unaware" things didn't match. From my experience, many insurance companies look for any way to not pay. And in this case, their argument would be solid. Being responsible for someone else's medical bills could bankrupt you.
 
Could bankrupt you, your kids and their kids.

What's the difference in price between the two displacements?
 
I'd just front up for registration and at least third party insurance. May want to consider theft, fire and property add ons to the insurance as well. Personally, I'd say unless its a huge difference its not worth it.

Example: My 125 costs me about $280 a year to keep on the road - $110 in standard bike rego and then $170 in compulsory third party insurance. My upcoming 850 will be the stock $110 rego fee and then around $450 in compulsory third party insurance. What're your rates like? If they're any dearer then thats hard luck...

I'm not considering doctoring the numbers in any way, its simply not worth it if you or somone else gets hurt. Plus, we have a different rego system where a tag gets affixed to the bike every year with bike type, plate number, vin & engine numbers... the whole shebang.

Anyway, just some food for thought - boingk
 
The premiums between a 175 and 350 would be insignificant. Not worth the hassle and risk.
 
DrJ said:
The premiums between a 175 and 350 would be insignificant. Not worth the hassle and risk.
Click to expand...


I have to agree. The up-side is too small and the down-side is far too great! It's just not worth the risk. :P
 
If your even contemplating something like that you shouldn't post it in an internet forum, thats just stupid
If your caught perpetrating deliberate fraud tthe consequences could be real serious, including jail time, just to set an example to others maybe?
Personallly, I wouldn't do it.

PJ
 
I got stopped by the local RCMP last year on my Suzuki with a collector plate...they ran the plate through the computer, and noted that the plate was registered to a red-coloured bike...they wanted to verify that the colour was right. They told me that people run several bikes on one collector plate, sometimes...SHOCK :o.....I think it was a training exercise, one cop didn 't look old enough to have a drivers licence...point is, registration describes the bike, not just the serial number. However, initial registration is based on the serial number, which naturally is for a bike (from the factory) with a certain sized engine. No later check is made if the engine is bored out, or replaced with a larger displacement. The suggestion to use a frame with a lower displacement holds water. ::)
 
More than likely you can get away with this, and because you are keeping the frame and vin from the 175 it will technically work.

The bike will pass a visual inspection as most people will have no idea that the motor is from a 350. But accidents happen, normally when you don't expect it, and getting stuck with bills because the insurance co decided no to pay out sucks.

I bought a 2006 Audi RS4 when they came to the US and tried to skimp on the insurance play a little trickery, whathaveyou. I told the insurance company I lived by myself, that no one else had access to the keys and that it was to be a 2nd car (that I would drive less than 20k a year.) Truth was my girlfriend lived with me and shared my car but keeping her off the insurance saved me over $1200 a year. Long story short... two weeks after I got the car she totaled it after falling asleep at the wheel. Insurance didn't pay up so I had a $70K pile of car parts in my driveway for almost 2 years while I parted that car out. Just barely got my money back and had to make expensive payment on a car I couldn't drive... very much a learning lesson.
 
crazypj said:
If your even contemplating something like that you shouldn't post it in an internet forum, thats just stupid
If your caught perpetrating deliberate fraud tthe consequences could be real serious, including jail time, just to set an example to others maybe?
Personallly, I wouldn't do it.

PJ
Click to expand...
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!!!! The cops do indeed watch these motorcycle forums. It's part of their "anti gang" control. Any talk of illegal activity, and they have your ip address, which will give them an address to where the post originated. DUMB!!!
 
Ok, because you said you have an M1 and a G2, i assume youre in Ontario. Now, the thing is, the difference in price for insurance for the 175 and 350 is going to be about... wait... let me get my calculator.... 0 dollars. Both bikes are old enough that your only real choice is going to be Jevco, no matter what broker you go through. For your first year riding, its gonna be about 1100 dollars on a bike older than 15 years. Doesnt matter If its a CBR600 F1, a 1948 indian racer with hand shift, or a CL90. Jevco doesnt rate on CC's for anything past 15 years and definately not for anything with vintage status, its pretty much a flat rate depending on how long youve had your licence. If you want to verify this, call up JR Duffy insurance and ask for a quote for someone with their M1, no experience, on both bikes. I guarantee you the price will be very very very similar if not 0 dollars difference.

What youre suggesting will get you reamed hard, and probably your bike confiscated, should you ever happen to run into a cop who knows anything about bikes. Is it worth it for max 50 dollars savings? All it takes it ONE cop to pull you over who has even the slightest interest in vintage hondas to be able to spot the difference. Think its not going to happen? For example at one time i had both an 88 Honda CRX and an 89 Honda Civic. Was driving the CRX to the car wash the day i sold it, and accidentally had the insurance/registration for the civic in the glovebox. Got pulled over for expired tags. You know the first thing the cop said to me? "Son, this isnt a civic, this is a CRX". Luckily i was about 3 doors down from where i had parked my civic, so he let me walk there and back to get the proper registration. So yeah, you think the average cop is stupid and wont be able to tell the difference, just remember, cops have hobbies too.

Not to mention the excuse you want to use wont hold up. The cop will say "Oh, that sucks you didnt know, well, heres your court date" and your bike will be towed and locked up in the impound, and probably be considered stolen and youd have a hard time getting it back, especially because you dont have any vin numbers on it anymore to prove its really the 350 that you bought, AND considering the fact you said you didnt know it was a 350, AND considering the fact youd have to magically produce ownership that you claimed you never knew existed. This would go over like a lead balloon in court. Also not to mention itd be almost impossible to get safety inspected and registered because any place you took it to that wouldnt be able to check the difference (Canadian tire) is definately gonna cross reference the VINs to cover their ass, and any real bike mechanic is going to say "This isnt the right ownership for this bike".

So, in short, this is a terrible idea with 100% risk and absolutely no reward. Dont do it.
 
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