Ontario custom small motorcycle builder seeking guidance on customer registration

[Mantini]

Hi everyone,

I’m hoping someone here with experience owning or operating a custom motorcycle shop can shed some light on how you handle registration for ground-up customer builds.

I run a small business based in Ontario, Canada, and we build custom small motorcycles to order.

I know this is primarily a motorcycle forum, and I understand “mini bike” can mean off-road-only to a lot of people, but our builds are closer in physical size to a Honda Grom/Ruckus-style bike than a typical pocket bike. They use larger engines, generally 420cc to 670cc, and are built around our own custom frame design.

Each bike is hand-built for a specific customer. We use a standardized chassis that we've designed because it is more practical for fabrication, but the builds are custom ordered rather than mass-produced. We can provide detailed documentation, including invoices, bills of sale, proof of component origin, engine details, photos during construction, specifications, and a wiring diagram/equipment checklist if needed.

What I am trying to understand is the legitimate path that established custom shops use when they build motorcycles from the ground up for customers:

• Do you sell the customer a frame/kit and leave them to use their own province/state’s homemade, specially constructed, or assembled-motorcycle registration process?
• Do you provide a VIN and MSO/MCO for the frame, and if so, what is required for that to be accepted?
• If you build a complete bike to a customer’s order, how do you structure the paperwork so the customer has the best chance of getting it titled, insured, safety-inspected, and street registered?
• For shops selling across borders, how do you handle customers in the U.S. versus customers in your home province/state?
• Are there specific lawyers, consultants, brokers, inspectors, or government departments that you found especially helpful?

I am not looking for a loophole or trying to misrepresent a mini bike as street legal. I am trying to understand the correct way to structure custom builds and documentation so customers have the best possible chance of legally registering and riding them where their local laws permit it.

Although we are Ontario-based, most of our customers are in the United States, so any Ontario/Canadian experience would be especially helpful, but I would also appreciate hearing how U.S. custom shops handle state-by-state assembled or specially constructed motorcycle registration.

Attached are some photos of a recent bike we built for one of our customers.

Thank you,
Sam

 

[Tim]

The only feedback I can give is my experience getting a MTO title for a bike I built on a custom frame.

Mine was a Voodoo Vintage custom frame from the US. It came with a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin and had a 'VIN' engraved on the frame.

I went into the MTO with an affadavit saying I had put the motorcycle together with a list of the major components. Engine, suspension etc.

I would think the path of least resistance would be to sort out how to be a legitimate custom frame builder. If you're creating complete motorcycles, there are likely 100x more hoops to jump through and certifications needed. As a frame builder, then you're into 'kit car' territory I think where the final customer does some amount of final assembly and registers like I did with MTO.

If I can get a title in Ontario for a US motorcycle frame that I bolted a 1975 Yamaha engine and suspension onto, I'd imagine anybody in the US would easily be able to register a motorcycle they 'built' based on a legitimate Canadian frame.

Ironically I ended up giving this bike to a friend of mine in Ohio, where I expect he had no trouble getting a title based on the original US based frame maker. So now the bike has dual-citizenship as I still have a legitimate Ontario MTO registration for it.

 

[ridesolo]

If I can get a title in Ontario for a US motorcycle frame that I bolted a 1975 Yamaha engine and suspension onto, I'd imagine anybody in the US would easily be able to register a motorcycle they 'built' based on a legitimate Canadian frame.

Ironically I ended up giving this bike to a friend of mine in Ohio, where I expect he had no trouble getting a title based on the original US based frame maker. So now the bike has dual-citizenship as I still have a legitimate Ontario MTO registration for it.

Thought I'd hop in w/ my $0.02 worth. I live in Ohio and here it's relatively easy. as @Tim said. I grew up in Pennsylvania and near New York and those states make things very difficult. Sometimes it's easiest there to get a friend in another state to title and register and then "sell" it to you because they are more likely to accept a title from another state at face value. "This valid title from XXXX state says it's a 1988 Whizbang ROK750R and the VIN on the frame matches the VIN on the title, therefore it MUST BE a 1988 Whizbang ROK750R!"

 

[Mantini]

Thank you both for your responses, Tim, that's a really cool bike and we do sell frame kits as well as complete builds.

I did a little bit more research after posting, and it does look like the best first step is to give the customer all the documentation and the certificate of origin. Still, the onus is on them to get it registered and make sure that it meets all safety standards of the state, but it alleviates us from having to register as a certified dealer.

Now, Tim, when you registered your bike with the VIN number provided, was that possible because Voodoo is registered as a genuine frame manufacturer?